Imagine a New Way to Live

[Upbeat Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome everybody. This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction, brought to you by Westwords Consulting, the Kenosha County Substance Use Disorder Coalition, and by a generous grant from the state of Wisconsin's dose of Reality. Real talks reminding you that opioids are powerful drugs and that one pill can kill.

Mike: I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: The Imagine Recovery and Imagine House in New Orleans Louisiana's mission is to support and guide those in recovery as they create healthy lifestyles, heal relationships, and learn a new way to live. Isn't that a great description for the goals of recovery?

Mike: We're gonna talk about how Imagine House and Imagine Recovery goes about meeting those goals with our guest today, Felicia Montiforte. Felicia's co-founder and CEO of Imagine Recovery and co-founder of Imagine House. She's a graduate of Tulane University, parent of a 2025 Tulane Law graduate and an LSU graduate. She's got Louisiana covered. She also is a former board member of the Association of Recovery and Higher Education, and works closely with and supports Tulane University's collegiate recovery program.

Mike: Felicia is also, as we'll talk about in a while, a grateful person in long-term recovery. Welcome, Felicia.

Felicia: Hi, Mike. Thanks for having me. I'm so glad to be here.

Mike: Well, we'll get to your story in a second, but first, tell us about Imagine. I love the name, Imagine Recovery and Imagine House.

Felicia: Well, thank you. We love the name as well.

Felicia: W hen I got sober and others, I couldn't imagine what my life could be like or imagine what it'd be like to have freedom from this affliction. So we do love the name and we have a huge painting of John Lennon in the lobby.

Mike: Oh!

Felicia: Just so you know. (laughs)

Felicia: So Imagine Recovery we opened, I wanna recognize a couple people in particular. My co-founder Christopher O'Shea, he and I started Imagine Together and still run Imagine Together, and our clinical director, soon to be executive director August Boyd, who has been with us since the beginning has the three of us together, along with other wonderful staff have created this incredible place for healing. So Imagine Recovery opened in January of 2018, and as we will talk about collegiate recovery just very briefly, the story is we were at a friend's house in New Orleans for a fundraiser. We learned that Tulane University lost seven students in one semester to overdose and suicide.

Felicia: The suicide's also tied to drug and alcohol use. And there wasn't a place in New Orleans to send them. And so Christopher and I were driving home from this event and said, well, we need to do it. We need to open a place near campus. We were living in Baton Rouge at the time. Would moved to New Orleans.

Felicia: Do that. To help these students. And so that's the inspiration as an Tulane alum and having kids that were college age, soon to be college age. Anyway, I just wanted to say that. But we do of course serve the whole community. And we believe here at Imagine in several things. We are heavy clinical, so we believe that treatment should be a clinical experience, meaning we have all master's level therapists, people with experience that you're here to learn so many things, not the things necessarily you learn in the 12 step programs or other recovery programs.

Felicia: So having the science, having the talking about nutrition and sleep, and we're very, another thing too, I wanna, it's very, very important when you treat substance use, alcohol use addiction. We call it substance misuse, to always treat mental health co-occurring. So we're very focused on mental health dialectical behavioral therapy skills, other skills, mind body medicine, psychodrama, other, you know, group offerings.

Felicia: Because it's always about the mental health. And so that's super important. That was our mission. That's what we've continued to do. Our feeling is we're either gonna do it the very best we can or we're not gonna do it at all. So that's Imagine Recovery. We're so happy to be here and serve this beautiful community.

Felicia: And then Imagine House was founded, that's our sober living homes, structured sober living homes. The men's house opened four years ago and the women's house three years ago. And those have been incredible support systems for our clients here. And they're also open to other people in the community.

Felicia: You don't have to be in treatment at Imagine, I say here because I'm sitting in my office at Imagine (laughs). So yeah, that's what we have.

Mike: Well, if we believe that it's a disease, you gotta treat it like one.

Felicia: Absolutely.

Mike: Yeah.

Felicia: Absolutely. And you know, Mike, one thing I wanna say as well is that we very purposefully made this an outpatient program.

Felicia: So we have various levels of care. We have five days a week, three days a week. We have substance use mental health programs, and we have solely mental health programs for people in the community that don't struggle with any substance issues. And, oh, I'm sorry. I lost my train of thought there. We did that because we believe that getting treatment while living in your life is where it really matters.

Felicia: Having experiences that are happening, whether it's relationships, stressors, you know, successes, those challenges that are happening in people's lives, not just trying to let's say stay sober, but healing relationship, you know, all this stuff going on, job, school. To be able to come to treatment.

Felicia: Something happens when you come right here and talk about it in group, talking with your individual therapist or just our staff in general. Another thing that I failed to mention, our mission is loving. We are very loving group, understanding, supportive. There's an energy here that you can feel when you walk in.

Felicia: It doesn't look like a clinic or a hospital. It's a lot of art and musical instruments. It's a fun place to be. So anyway. Yes.

Mike: Well, on your website it says, our founders and staff know firsthand the challenges of early recovery. I think that's important. You all have had experience about what it's like.

Mike: You said you were in long-term recovery. How long?

Felicia: Mm-hmm. Last Wednesday I celebrated 17 years.

Mike: Wow.

Felicia: My business partner, Christopher has 20, so he'll be 27 in November, and then several of our staff are in long-term recovery.

Mike: Congratulations.

Felicia: Not everyone, that's fine too.

Felicia: But you know what, if you're not... thank you. If you're not personally in recovery from substance use, trust me, everyone has a family member, a close friend, they've or a parent, and they've walked through that Al-Anon, ACA process. So everyone has had exposure and lots of education.

Mike: Long ago I hired a woman to work in my program who had a master's degree in family therapy.

Mike: She was excellent. And after about a week she came to me and said, I don't think I belong here. I grew up in a really healthy family and I don't have an addiction and anything. And I started laughing. I said, well, God forbid we should bring positive mental health to the field and good choices.

Felicia: (laughs)

Mike: And that's where I brought you in as a counterbalance.

Felicia: Right.

Mike: It's important to have the experience, but it's also important to have the education.

Felicia: Absolutely. I completely agree.

Mike: Well, can I ask you a couple of questions? What was your drug of choice and how long did it take you to kick it?

Felicia: Well my drug of choice was cocaine. But I have to say I started at 15 with marijuana.

Felicia: I did drink alcohol, but I don't know that I ever drank alcoholically. But I will say this to those of you out there. If I were to drink, it always led to other things. So I choose to not drink, of course clean and sober. And I went through a period of misusing opiates. So it's not like I just did cocaine (laughs), but that was always the drug that I couldn't put down in the one that eventually led to me losing everything, including custody of my children, my marriage, everything.

Felicia: And so finally at 43 years old, I went to Palm Desert, California. I grew up in Los Angeles, and my dad took me in who I just lost my dad last year. I've always been very close to him. So I lived in his little Casita and went to a treatment center there called the Hacienda Valdez.

Felicia: Definitely a shout out for the Hacienda on a county bed. 'Cause I know we're gonna talk about resources for people who are underfunded. It was magical. I was ready and it just gave me everything that I needed and wanted and was introduced to Alcoholics Anonymous and other therapies.

Felicia: And so yeah, that's what it took. And, you know, I had an order in place, a custody agreement through the courts that I needed to finish treatment. Be sober at least a year, have a job. Be a respectful human being until I had the opportunity to see my children again. They were nine and seven when I lost custody, and now when I saw them again, they were 12 and 10.

Felicia: So it was over three years with no communication. And I feel like that was a gift in some ways because it wasn't like, maybe tomorrow. Maybe tomorrow. I just knew I had to walk the walk, do the work. And be the best person I can so that when they're ready to see me, I am prepared to come back into their lives.

Felicia: And I'm happy to say that we are super close. My daughter is 26, my son's 28. My daughter actually today is taking her second day of her bar exam, so I'm wishing her luck from afar. (laughs)

Mike: Oh, I can't even imagine the stress of that.

Felicia: Yes. Day two out of three. So it's this week. It's exciting.

Mike: My mom was recovering and she was always embarrassed, Felicia in some ways, and she would always apologize to us.

Mike: And it took her a long time to realize how proud we were of her courage and strength to kick something so insidious. And when she finally embraced it, it was heartwarming, but, so, you know, all of that is in play.

Felicia: Well it is, and I'm so glad you mentioned that because this is a message that I tell a lot of people who are in that place in early recovery or maybe even farther along, where it's that shame and guilt of this is what I did, this is who I was.

Felicia: And what I wanna say is my children have directly told this to me that my experience, them witnessing me overcome. I mean, it was terrible. It was, you know. Not only lets them know that when they're going through something, if there's depression or anxiety or whatever it might be, there is a solution and I'm the person they come to talk to.

Felicia: But I believe it gives our children and our families permission to not be perfect. I mean, not everyone has a straight line. Not everyone goes through life without struggles, but what do you do? How do you rise? It's not about the fall, it's about the rise. And so. I love the fact that I have counseled my, when my daughter was at Tulane and I lived two blocks away from there, her friends about their themselves, their parents, their other friends that were struggling.

Felicia: You're a beacon of hope and of experience. And so yeah, I think it's a real gift to be in this position to share the message to help others, which is why I feel like. My personal view is that I'm extremely transparent about my story.

Mike: You know, your mission. You just touched on it without mentioning it. Your mission at Imagine includes the word accountability.

Felicia: Yes. Well, I, and that's true. So I know that's one of the things that we talk about in our sober living on the Imagine House NOLA website is in early recovery it's so important to have structure. I know for me, I had no structure, no accountability, and so having to participate in the house to go to family dinner every Sunday to be accountable to your housemates, to your apartment mates to do the drug screening and the breathalyzing to show up to group.

Felicia: When someone isn't here by group time, we give them two to three minutes and then my office manager or admissions director, Kirsten Clark, is on the phone saying, are you coming today? There is no, just sort of blow it off or whatever. We do a lot of devices, breathalyzing devices and if somebody misses a test, we say, you missed your test.

Felicia: We need you to test. I mean, just that showing up part, and I believe that being accountable to show up is what will propel you forward into that healing process. Because left to my own devices, if I just go, ah, I'm gonna blow it off. 'Cause I'll do something either unconsciously or consciously that would hurt myself from my growth.

Felicia: But if someone's telling me, you have to do it, okay, well then I'll go and then I benefit from that, if that makes any sense.

Mike: Yeah, it does. And you just mentioned the structure too. Structure well talk about structure in early recovery.

Felicia: Well, I mean, I think it's huge. Just, you know, suit up and show up whether it's to treatment, whether it's to commitments.

Felicia: I know for me, I was very fortunate in my life. I grew up privileged, let's say. And when I met my children's father, I was 23 years old and I didn't work. We got married and then I raised children and, when I got sober. And got out of treatment. I was 60 days sober. I got a job as a waitress in Palm Springs, and I will tell you that job that I had for 19 months and I showed up on time every day.

Felicia: Never called in sick, not if I was sick, I would've called in sick, but I didn't make up a lie to not show up, taught me how to show up, how to be accountable, how to be a good employee. And just that process taught me how to be a real citizen, if you will. And so similarly in early recovery, showing up, you know, having service commitments at your meetings treatment for the other people in your life.

Felicia: I just think that that accountability or if you say, yes, mom, I'll pick you up and I'll take you to the airport. Show it. You gotta show up. I mean that because the patterns, you know those neuro pathways, you're creating new ways to live. So every time you take the right and not the left, you're making that pathway of positivity.

Felicia: And it goes so far into our self-esteem and into our, you know, mental health. Like it boosts mental health to do what you say you're gonna do. I tell people all the time, I know we talked about promises. Follow through is a huge promise that's come true for me. I didn't have the ability to follow through when using, but I can now, you know, so anyway.

Mike: Well, I was, this is sort of related. I was talking to my kids about this in the last couple days. There's a term that is used nowadays for people working remotely common with the younger generation called wiggle the mouse. Right? So you're not really working. You're on social media, you're doing whatever, but every now and then you wiggle a mouse, so it looks like you're working.

Mike: And it leads to my daughter said in her experience that that leads to a great deal of depression. Feeling like you're not worthy of anything. And I think that get things done, no matter how small, you put the small things together and the next thing you know, you have 17 years in recovery.

Felicia: Well, I completely agree with that. There's a... I love what your daughter said because I talk about the indicator. I don't know, it's that gut feeling, that sort of intuition when you know you're not doing something right. When wiggling the mouse, you, who are you getting one over on and really, you know, internally you're doing the wrong thing.

Felicia: Recovery has given that to me just because I can with a clear mind can see what the right and wrong thing to do is. And I am not perfect in it by any means, but my gut feeling will tell me that's not the right thing. You know it 'cause you can feel it so.

Mike: Yes.

Felicia: So just encouraging people to, you know, you don't have to live like that.

Felicia: Part of being in recovery is being free. Free from regret, free from offenses to other people, free from harming yourself. There's just, ugh. I mean, let me tell you what, for those of you out there who have not tried to get sober or not sure, just give it a shot because I had no idea. Again, back to the word, imagine, I had no idea how amazing life in recovery could be.

Felicia: I just had no way to conceive of that I thought. Even though cocaine and other things are killing me and ruining my life, how will I ever put it down? And so it's definitely possible. We get to see that every day here, every day. And in the community around us. New Orleans has a huge recovery community, which I'm so grateful to be a part of.

Mike: You like me I live in Wisconsin and New Orleans is, boy, we're the two epicenters in a lot of ways of use and misuse and addiction. And I did have somebody say a while back that we have a lot of using, so we have a lot of recovery. You think the same?

Felicia: Oh, absolutely.

Felicia: It's so funny, when we were opening Imagine, people were saying to Christopher and myself like, you're opening a treatment center in New Orleans, but people drink there. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna pause and let you think about what you just said.

Mike: (Laughs)

Felicia: Yes, I mean, people decided to live, they decided to made a decision to not ruin their lives and put the drink down or the drugs down.

Felicia: Oh no, it's. It's an incredible city and you know, we get clients from other places that live in our sober living and come to our programming and several of them decide to move here because I feel, and I know Christopher and August and the staff share this belief that, especially for the younger ones, let's say, but not necessarily, I mean, being in a city that's alive, the music, the food, the creativity, the art. I mean, there's just so much going on here that being sober somewhere that you can find new interests. We have clients that come here and decide to go to cooking school or whatever it might be. That and being in a community that's so thriving with people who have had a lot of experience with heavy duty partying, I mean, people say, oh, I grew up in New Orleans.

Felicia: It's normal for 14 year olds to drink here. And I'm like, you know what? It was normal for me at 15 to smoke weed in Los Angeles 'cause everybody did that so. But anyway, it's amazing.

Mike: Well, you said people move there for the recovery programs. Talk a little bit about the women's house because during COVID we saw, since COVID, we saw a huge spike in women's issues, women's drinking all across the United States.

Felicia: Yes.

Mike: And using, and when women are interviewed, and I've had numerous ones on the podcast, they all point to isolation as one of the. Problems, causes, resultance of that. I would imagine that breaking that isolation is part of the goal of the women's house and recovery in general.

Felicia: 100%. You know, we also saw what you saw, the isolation, you know, they talk about it's all about connection, right?

Felicia: So what is, what's the opposite of addiction is connection and isolation. And just going back to what I said about the mental health, I believe that 98% of people who experience substance misuse, alcoholism, addiction it starts with self-medicating a mental health issue, whether it's way long ago or whether it's anxiety, depression, whatever. And so this is isolation, right? Depression, low mental health. So I'm self-medicating with alcohol. And I wanna say during COVID, how many women and men, but were in unhealthy households.

Mike: Yeah.

Felicia: Weren't, you know, sometimes going to work is the best time you'll spend because you're not with a partner.

Felicia: Not necessarily that's abusive, but there's a lot of contention. I mean, it's a very stressful time and so, you know, leaning on the alcohol, we saw a lot of that as well. So the women's house is magical because we have from right now, a 23-year-old up to a 50-year-old. I mean, but even, you know, the range of ages and watching these women bond together have fun together, cook dinners.

Felicia: They did an arts and crafts day. I got a picture of them at the dining room table with all the stuff everywhere. We allow them to have their pets too. So it's like women and pets and all kinds of stuff. Oh, and I will say this, when we're talking about accountability, we have paid staff live-in house managers at our sober living homes, so.

Felicia: People who are there employed to make sure that everything's working and curfews are being met and all that accountability stuff. But for the women, it's so important, and I will say this for a lot of women before they got into recovery didn't have a lot of female relationships, you know or have a lot of trust in other females for whatever reason.

Felicia: And so having a safe place to be. Focusing on your recovery, focusing on that connection with other women, having fun together, going to meetings together, doing you know, recovery work together is so important. I go there for family dinners. I watch them laugh and have fun and support each other and cry and do all kinds of things like they're just there.

Felicia: It's amazing to watch and they're so happy and they stay in touch and yeah, all that stuff.

Mike: Well, learning how to have a healthy relationship is not easy. If you've lived in a toxic world for a long time.

Felicia: Absolutely. You know, when I, I remember many years ago I was talking to a friend in recovery and I was talking about this relationship I was in.

Felicia: It was very early recovery, and, and he said to me, so you're sober and you're, your person you're dating is sober. Yes. And you're wondering why you don't have a healthy relationship? And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, have you ever seen what one looks like?

Mike: Right.

Felicia: My parents did not have a healthy relationship.

Felicia: And I was like, huh. I actually happen, so how am I supposed to know what to do? Right.

Mike: Right.

Felicia: So yeah. Anyway, all of that, it's just, and that's stuff we talk about here too, is the levels of what people are learning and experiencing and connecting over, you know, in when people are using and drinking and there's so many people that come here that think they're the only ones, or I'm alone, or no one will understand and the amount of times they're like somebody else shares.

Felicia: Oh my gosh. They completely understand. They're so surprised at how many people have been through what they've been through or think the way they think or whatever. So connection, connection, connection.

Mike: Well, okay, so speaking of connection and then isolation that goes with it. You also are, have been and are heavily involved in the collegiate population.

Mike: Talk about I mean at a time where drinking seems to be the major, right? I mean, that's part of the reason of going to college. You have to look for connections if you're trying to get sober in college.

Felicia: 100%. So I'm a huge fan. I'm a former board member, the Association of Recovery in Higher Education, A. R. H. E..

Felicia: Side note, they just had their national conference here in New Orleans and. I am very proud to say Imagine Recovery was chosen as the organization of the year of all the places in the country. So that was exciting. But A. R. H. E. is basically the governing board of all collegiate recovery programs. So Collegiate Recovery started many years ago.

Felicia: There were a handful, Rutgers, Brown, Texas Tech, Augsburg . And over time, more and more and more have started when I got into the treatment field in 2010. I was very involved. I visited many collegiate recovery programs, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, U-C-L-A-U-S. Anyway, a bunch of them. So A. R. H. E. helps schools start collegiate recovery well.

Felicia: A few years before Tulane got theirs, Christopher and I, of course as a Tulane alum, knowing a lot about collegiate recovery, having been involved for, at that time, 10, 12 years, helped Tulane start their collegiate recovery program. And we did a lot of fundraising and went to the, you know, staff administration at Tulane, why this is necessary.

Felicia: Gratefully it came together and it's been, now, I think it's about three years old. So the importance of this, why are collegiate recovery programs important? Because a student goes to school and let's say I'm at a regular school and I'm decided to get sober. How do I find the other students that are sober and living a life of recovery?

Felicia: There's a tendency to like go to campus and then go straight home because inevitably you'll be offered something or you, you know, whatever. So it's a way to find your tribe. Having programming there. Cleans recovery program is basically a safe space on campus for students in recovery. And it can be recovery from anything.

Felicia: You can have an eating disorder recovery, gambling recovery. You don't have to be drugs and alcohol, mental health recovery of course. And so, collegiate recovery programs. And then you have a staff member, there's a director of course, and just having that place to gather and have pizza, and have meetings and study and have fellowship.

Felicia: And they go on. The Tulane Recovery program goes on trips like they did Santa Fe, they went to Santa Fe skiing over Mardi Gras. So they provide safe alternatives to a heavy partying period of time.

Mike: (laughs) Get out of town!

Felicia: Right. And so over these last years, it's common for me to talk to families and parents that say, you know, my daughter was gonna go to this school, but I decided, I know she's not there yet.

Felicia: She is drinking, not alcoholic yet, but family history, X, Y, Z. I need her to go to a school that has a collegiate recovery program in case something comes up. There's immediately that support there that that community, I mean, they all gravitate towards it and it's thriving and wonderful. I can't say enough about A. R. H. E. and I'm so happy that Tulane has a collegiate recovery program.

Felicia: We work very closely with them and they come to all of our events. One thing that Imagine Recovering and Imagine House does or do, is we host events every holiday. So there's 4th of July picnic or barbecue. We do a zero proof Jazz Fest kickoff party. So the night before jazz, the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival starts, we do a huge party for a couple hundred people.

Felicia: You know, Thanksgiving dinner, Christmas dinner, you know, down the line. And the whole community is invited. So anyone in recovery can come. Their families and Tulane's recovery program. Often those students come to those things. Because what we're showing, not just the young ones, but everyone is.

Felicia: How to have fun in recovery. There's that fear. I'm gonna stop drinking. I can't smoke pot anymore. I'll never have fun again. It's more fun. It's a, oh yeah, of course Mardi Gras, we do sober Mardi Gras stuff (laughs). I would be remiss without saying Mardi Gras. And so they get to, you know, 'cause what the goal is of course is not what you're giving up, but you're going towards a life worth living.

Felicia: A life that's more gratifying, more satisfying, happier, freer. You know, a lot of people that are using and drinking with mental health issues like depression, these students are under so much pressure or people in general. Right. There's a lot of stress in the world. Don't even realize that the drinking is making them more depressed.

Mike: Mm-hmm.

Felicia: Is more, you know, so when they take the poison out or stop ingesting the poison, like the mental freedom is the clarity. Anyway. It's wonderful.

Mike: Well, you guys are building. There's a lot of communities, Felicia, that are losing. Talk about funding a little bit. And then also how you reach out to those underserved populations for whom, or this is a huge area of concern who are losing, you know, Medicaid funding and rural programs, et cetera.

Felicia: You know, it's a tough one. I know you said that to me in the email and you know, I'm extremely grateful to live in a city that we have programs for people with no funding. As I mentioned, Grace House is the women's program, Bridge House is the men's program. And then the center that I went to, the Hacienda Valdez, there's a men's program called The Ranch.

Felicia: Those are in Desert Hot Springs, California. But it is a concern. And we get calls all the time. I asked you to please give out my cell phone number or my email address, my cell phone number's on the homepage of my website because I keep my hand in the pulse of like who has the resources where they could possibly go.

Felicia: But it is a concern of course, but I think with the right direction and guidance there are programs that are state funded that are donation based. Bridge House, Grace House does a lot of fundraising and so they might not be as plentiful as we hope, but they do exist. And you know, I could certainly help connect those dots for people.

Mike: Yeah. You have to keep advocating. So what's next for, for you, for Imagine House, Imagine Recovery?

Felicia: Well, let's see. Well, gosh, one day at a time, right?

Mike: Yeah.

Felicia: I'm just excited. We're looking at new things. There's some possibilities we may expand in the next year or two. I mean, I don't wanna say it like necessarily, you know, potentially have residential and detox because that's really needed, but I don't know.

Felicia: We're not there yet. I'm gonna be doing a little traveling, so that's exciting. And I have the greatest team here. We've added some new staff members to sort of reorganize, so that's exciting. Just, you know, when we opened Imagine, this is a labor of love and kind of just figured it out. And now it's exciting just to get more systems in play.

Felicia: I know that's very businessy talk, but that sort of accountability and that structure. I'm realizing that that helps in all ways. In all ways. So yeah, so I, you know, gonna go do some camping and we're excited to be offering, we do a lot of professional events here and networking events and, you know, continuing education things.

Felicia: We have a big DBT training coming up for the community of clinicians. And so, anyway. Good things happening at Imagine Recovery and Imagine House

Mike: And personally go celebrate your daughter's passing the bar, right?

Felicia: Yes. So she takes it today. She did Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then they wait for several months to find out how they did.

Felicia: But so far, so good. And then, I'm taking her to Montana on a "bar trip" (finger quotes) they call it, which is you graduate law school. You take the bar and we're going to Glacier National Park for a little vacation together as a. As a yay! You graduated law school. (laughs)

Mike: Yeah. That's awesome. That is just awesome.

Felicia: Yeah.

Mike: You would think with it's 2025, they could grade the exam just a little bit more quickly.

Felicia: I think they want them to sweat.

Mike: I do. I, yeah.

Felicia: I'm not sure because I think it'll take, as far as I know, at least a month or two, so they just, yeah. But it is what it is, right?

Mike: Yeah.

Felicia: Acceptance. (laughs)

Mike: All we can do.

Mike: Well, thank you so much for sharing it. And you know, those of you who listen and watch, there's always links to Imagine Recovery. Imagine House.

Mike: Felicia's been gracious enough to say, reach out to her personally if you need to. Thanks so much for being with us today, sharing all of your experience and expertise. For those of you listening and watching, we hope you find help, support wherever you are. As always, thanks for listening.

Mike: Be safe. And keep imagining a better life. Thanks.