Apricity, Whole Life Recovery

[Upbeat Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome everybody. This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction, brought to you by Westwords Consulting, the Kenosha County Substance Use Disorder Coalition, and by a grant from the state of Wisconsin's Dose of Reality Real Talks reminding you that opioids are powerful drugs and that one pill can kill. I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: My three guests today work in an innovative program that provides a continuum of care for substance use disorders. That includes treatment, sober living, education, support, and employment. In 2018, STEP Industries and the Mooring Programs merged to become Apricity. The leadership team brought to life division of a one of a kind recovery organization.

Mike: Michelle Devine Giese is the CEO of Apricity, former president of STEP Industries. Michelle has been on a recovery journey since 1995, joining STEP Industries in 1996. Now, to me that sounds like yesterday, but I guess it's a while ago. Dan Haak went to treatment at the Mooring Programs in 1997, began at STEP Industries as an employee in 1998.

Mike: He is currently the president of Apricity Contract Packaging and Recovery Support. And Jolie VerVoort I knew I'd miss it. Didn't I tell ya? VerVoort started at Mooring Programs as an intern in 2004. And throughout her tenure at Mooring Programs, Jolie has held seven different positions within the organization.

Mike: In 2018, she became the president of residential treatment. She's also a licensed as a clinical substance use counselor.

Mike: Welcome everybody.

Michelle: Thanks for having me.

Dan: Morning.

Mike: I'm so glad you could be with us and congratulations on your program. We'll just do this in a little bit of order, Michelle, since you're the big kahuna, I think.

Mike: In the introduction I said that Apricity offered a unique blend of treatment, residential, sober living, as well as employment. How did that all come together?

Michelle: It actually started in about 2008 where I learned about this place in San Francisco called Delancey Street. And they had everything under one roof.

Michelle: And to me it made sense, right? Wrapped in the support of recovery, no matter what pieces it was, but just having that support. No matter what kind of program you're going through, I thought that nailed it and would give people the best chance for success. And so ever since then, we've just been putting the pieces together. And then in 2018, we had a great opportunity and had great leadership, and it was exactly the right time to do it. And we jumped in and had it done in six months we merged with the three of us doing a lot of the work to make that happen.

Mike: Yeah. On your website it you emphasize that on your website that you all played a instrumental role in the development of this. I just think it's fabulous.

Michelle: Yeah, it's the three of us all bring a very unique background and different talents and make a really great team. If one of us isn't really good at something, the other one is, and, we're just really a good team and it was easy to make it happen.

Mike: Wow! Dan, you're the president of Contract Packaging and Recovery Support. The packaging, I assume is part of the employment part of the program.

Dan: Yes.

Mike: And you worked your way up from recovery to the position you're in now. Remarkable.

Dan: Ya, I was a little forced into it. I was forced into recovery.

Mike: Like everybody, right?

Dan: A lot of us end up there. I was like, forced into recovery didn't have a job, didn't have a car, didn't have a license, all that stuff. And my counselor at the time said, oh, maybe you should give STEP a try. You don't have to be there forever.

Dan: It's not somewhere you're gonna retire from. It's not something long term.

Mike: She lied to you. (laughs)

Dan: That was 8, 7 years ago, something like that. And I said, okay, whatever. Eventually they wore me down. So I went and gave it a try. And honestly, it was really a turning point for me. Because I think once I started here, I started to realize that as much as I didn't want to fit in or didn't think I belonged here, or didn't deserve to be in treatment or any of that stuff, it was absolutely the right place for me. I was surrounded by other people, like-minded, but not in a treatment setting.

Dan: It was just a different vibe, right? So people were doing stuff after work. They were going to meetings, they were doing recovery functions. So I found some other friends besides just the people that I was in treatment with and they had been sober for varying lengths of time.

Dan: Some people were sober started at the same time as me in treatment, and some people had been there for a couple of years. So you had this blend of recovery experience that you could lean on. And some of those cliches that early in recovery, you're like, what are you talking about?

Dan: All of the stick with the winners and all of those things that you hear or see on a bumper sticker.

Mike: Yep.

Dan: All of a sudden start to make sense.

Mike: Yeah I love that. That's a great one. I need to do a podcast on that when you go from bumper sticker to living the life. And I know people early in recovery, we all know people, right?

Mike: Who are just walking bumper stickers. That's all they talk about, but it's great. Jolie, I know you've held several different positions, but tell us about the residential treatment and what it entails.

Jolie: Sure. So residential treatment is really a starting point for people to enter into long-term recovery.

Jolie: Many people that come into residential treatment may have tried outpatient in the past and it didn't work for them,

Mike: Right.

Jolie: So when they walk into residential treatment, it is a captive audience. You live recovery in our building 24/7. That length of time really varies. Some people stay for 45 days, some people stay for 60.

Jolie: And as they move within different programs within our company, they can be connected with us to a year or more. Recovery at Apricity Residential Treatment is learning about why you're using and abusing drugs or alcohol, learning about behaviors, learning about changing your lifestyle. Getting connected to people that may have already been through residential treatment or not. Getting connected to people who want to go to meetings like Dan talked about, wanting to work at a facility that talks more about recovery than they do about going out for happy hour.

Mike: One of the things I love about things like Residential Treatment, Sober Living, is you have a population that will hold the others accountable, and it's fun to watch. In other words, there's another bumper sticker, don't BS the BSer, right?

Jolie: Yeah. And I think that's what makes our treatment center and our Contract Packaging, Sober Living, all of the programs that we have very unique because when they're in residential treatment for more than 45 days, we allow them to start going to work. So they can go to proceed contract packaging and work for the day, but then have a place to come back to at night to talk about any struggles that they may have encountered on their way to work or on their way home from work.

Jolie: Or maybe they had a conversation with a loved one that really went south and they can come back to treatment that evening and discuss it with their counselor or discuss it with the support staff that are there. So the part that I really like about our treatment program is they can go back out into the real world, so to speak, learn to live a life of a good what am I trying to say?

Jolie: Learn to live a... A productive member of society and then be able to come back into treatment to talk about the struggles that they may have saw somebody drinking on the bus, or they may have encountered somebody that they used to buy drugs from, and then coming back and talking about that.

Mike: Michelle, how about your 30 years into recovery, which is amazing, congratulations, but tell you have numerous programs in Wisconsin, right?

Mike: How many are there? How many sites do you have?

Michelle: (laughs) That's a complicated question.

Mike: Yeah. Oh.

Michelle: Cause we're actually in the process of like we just moved our contract packaging from Neenah. It was in Neenah for over 40 years, and we moved it across the road from our women's treatment facility. So people can just walk right down the road.

Mike: Wow.

Michelle: And be at an employment site. And it's on the bus route. And so people who are at other programs can easily get to us. And then we have a facility underneath Jolie as well, called Mooring House, which is our residential treatment center for men. And then we have our admin site right now is in Neenah.

Michelle: We're doing a little bit of construction and we'll be moving by Jolie soon. And then we have a facility in Milwaukee as well. And then one of the programs that Dan runs is a Emergency Department to Recovery program. And although it runs out of our facility, it really goes from Shawano to Fond Du Lac, from Waupaca to Chilton, and everywhere in between.

Michelle: We're in 12 hospitals now within the ThedaCare and Ascension systems and growing. And so we have coaches on call 24/7 that will go meet with people in their space at the hospital where they may be going through the worst day of their lives and trying to give them hope. And help them navigate whatever their next step is, whether that be, finding food or a safe place to stay or finding recovery.

Michelle: And recovery doesn't have to be with us. It can be anywhere. And so that's a program that we run, but it's not. It's not, in a box. It's everywhere.

Mike: Awesome. And for those of you listening in other parts of the world, we're talking about Wisconsin here, Eastern Wisconsin, which is the most beautiful state in the Midwest, I might add. But one of the questions, because you have so many sites and you were saying that you go between them. How has your message to the people you run into changed over the 30 years? You went from bumper sticker to probably a deeper message, I would think.

Michelle: I started out just like Dan, like I came to STEP for the program and was staying for four months. And that didn't work out. So I just never left. But really when I came here, it felt like home.

Michelle: It felt like I belonged and it was really the first place I felt like I belonged after getting into recovery. I tried working at other places and I didn't belong there anymore. I didn't wanna go to happy hour. But I did wanna go to happy hour, but I knew I couldn't go to happy hour.

Mike: Yeah.

Michelle: I think really when I talk to people, a lot of times it's, I was where you are, no matter where it is on their journey. I've probably been there. Because like I've done a lot of different jobs within the company and some of 'em were great and some of 'em were really hard and it's tough.

Michelle: Like living life on life's terms is hard. It's generally not the big things that make us wanna go back to using. It's just that everyday life catches up with you and it's hard to navigate

Mike: Accumulation of little things. Dan I have you're, I see you nodding, right? And I have a million questions for you, right?

Mike: So when you employ somebody, what's the message that you give them upon employment about staying sober, temptations, cravings? And how do you handle relapse, which is inevitably, it's inevitable that it will happen occasionally.

Dan: Yeah, so relapse I think is something that it's handled on a case by case basis and a lot of that depends on the individual and what they wanna do, right?

Dan: What do they wanna, what's their role in the relapse? And how can we help them? But they have to for sure own it. And I think, before you mentioned you can't BS the BSer.

Mike: Yeah.

Dan: And I think one of the beauties of our program, Michelle talked about we've done all these different roles.

Dan: The staff at contract packaging side of things is all in recovery. And most of them worked as employees. So we get it. We know the story that you're trying to tell. We know the spin you're trying to give it. We know that your PO, your probation officer is a jerk. We know that your counselor is a jerk and your significant other is a jerk, and everybody's responsible for all this stuff because we've told those stories to ourselves.

Dan: And so I think that allows us to, just embrace that, like that credibility that we have and help them understand I get it. I know what you're going through. I understand that you're frustrated. But, what can we do next to figure it out? And then if people are willing to engage at that point and say, okay here's my role in my relapse, here's my role in moving forward, then I think it becomes a heck of a lot easier to move forward with people and that allows us to continue the relationship. For sure, there are times when people relapse and we don't hear from 'em for a couple of weeks, and they might reach back out and we say, okay, what are you gonna do differently? And then, depending on an answer, we might say, okay when, once you get back into treatment or once you get these steps taken care of, then call us and we'll see about getting you employed again.

Dan: But we have to, we have to take care of the rest of the employees that are working here too. It can't be a sure come on back all the time without any consequences. Because then people see that and be like I, if I relapse, it's not that big of a deal. They're gonna, I am gonna get a slap on the wrist and no harm, no fall.

Dan: So we don't want it to be that, but we also want it to be inclusive of, we know that it's gonna happen, but we don't want to, I don't wanna put a risk of somebody else's recovery at the same time.

Mike: I would think, i'm almost certain, that once you get over the hump and people are more firm in their recovery, you must have an incredibly loyal workforce.

Dan: For sure. Look at Michelle and I, right? And our staff, our staff is in recovery because they were here. We supported them while they were here and when we had an opportunity to hire them to that next level, in that family side of things, that connection to recovery.

Dan: And people are willing to share their story with their coworkers. W e just had an article in the Wisconsin Watch, a digital media company, and they asked half a dozen of our employees who were more than happy to say here's my story, here's why I'm here, and here's how I feel supported.

Dan: And pretty much like unprompted just with some questions, but they were they just wanna share and are willing to give back.

Mike: Awesome. Jolie I did what you did or do right. As a counselor for a long time. And I wanted to stay away because of my family history. I wanted to stay away from alcohol and drugs.

Mike: Because when you grow up with it, you just wanna stay with, but I couldn't, 'cause everybody has issues and it seemed like addiction was interwound in everything. So that's part of what you have to deal with also.

Jolie: Absolutely. I'm not in recovery like Dan and Michelle.

Jolie: I just happened to fall in love with the business when I got in it 20 years ago. I fully understand that these are great people. People that come through our program are really great people. Just have chosen the wrong path.

Mike: Yep.

Jolie: And, as you look around your own life to anybody that's listening to this podcast, somebody that's struggling with alcoholism, somebody that is struggling with addiction to some sort of drug, it's inevitable that somebody in your circle you have thought about it. So like you said, it is everywhere. And it really, as people move through treatment, move through recovery, it really is the choices that they're gonna make.

Jolie: Like Michelle said earlier, she wanted to go to happy hour. She chose not to go to happy hour. And at some point when you have some recovery time under your belt and you start understanding addiction and you understand why you're using drugs or alcohol, then you can start making the choices.

Mike: I don't know how you deal with it, but with your staff, the people that you work with, who work with the clients. I had to remind mine all the time. You can't ignore the addiction. I know they have other issues, but you have to work on it concurrently because if they go back to using, they ain't looking at any of the other stuff, right?

Mike: Mm-hmm.

Jolie: Yeah. That's why we really try to concentrate on behaviors and we try to give them coping skills and we try to give them an outlook on spirituality. We try to help them understand how to confront somebody when they're being talked to and they don't like the way they're being talked to.

Jolie: So how do you confront somebody? We really try to help teach behaviors, different lifestyles, different way to address things, so they're not always turning to the alcohol or the drugs, because if you don't have the coping skills, it's hard to maintain long-term recovery.

Mike: Do you have a, I didn't even ask this, do you have employees that are not in recovery?

Jolie: We sure do. I'm one of them.

Mike: Oh. Oh my gosh. It must seem like they walk into a different kind of world.

Jolie: Yeah, it's a great balance. I think people that are in recovery have a really good outlook on what the road is like, and I think that our employees that don't have recovery themselves also have a really great way of looking at what recovery can look like, I think we balance each other out very well.

Jolie: I know Michelle talked about earlier, the three of us make a really good team, and I think that's part of it. There's not one road for everybody to go down. So yes, I have many counselors that are counseling people struggling with addiction that haven't faced addiction themselves. Maybe a family member has, maybe a best friend has, maybe an extended family has, but they have not.

Jolie: And it, it has worked really well for us.

Mike: That's funny. I had a woman I hired a long time ago and I was running a hospital and she wasn't in recovery, but she was so skilled as a therapist and she came up to me after two weeks, said, I don't think I can do this. And I said what do you mean?

Mike: She goes I have no stories. I don't. I don't know what to do. And I said to her God forbid we should bring positive mental health and skills to the patient. I said, what you have to offer them is what they've been lacking. That's what you're talking about. How to communicate successfully, how to have a healthy relationship, how to stay away from it.

Mike: We need a blend of those.

Jolie: Yeah. Just really teaching them how a different path than what they've known. Go ahead, Michelle.

Michelle: So I was actually, we're working on our annual report right now. And I happen to do the math this week, and 60% of the clinicians that work for Jolie are in recovery and the other 40% are not.

Mike: Oh, that's a great balance, I think.

Michelle: Like Jolie referred, is that we're a good team and I think having that mix of clinicians with lived and not lived experience also is a great balance of, they can... Sometimes the people who have that lived experience can enlighten the others.

Michelle: Hey, I told that story once too. Here's what's really going on. And then, people not in recovery also bring a whole different perspective on people. And often just have a different life experience that they can incorporate into what our people are dealing with.

Mike: Absolutely. As an adult, I had to learn, how do you celebrate a birthday? How do you, because all I ever saw was their stuff. So Michelle, I think I'm well read, but I'll be honest, I had to look up the word apricity. First of all, tell us what it means and how did you all pick it?

Michelle: Well, Apricity means the warmth of the sun in the winter.

Mike: Oh.

Michelle: Jolie and I were part of the marketing team when we were merging and we were working with a firm and we asked for ideas of names, and they came back with a list and it wasn't hitting the mark. We wanted it to be something kind of special.

Michelle: And that talked, that felt right to us. On their second try, they had a list of words and apricity was on there, and I Googled it. And right away I was like, that's recovery, right?

Mike: Yeah.

Michelle: Like addiction is lonely and dark and cold. And apricity is warm and sunny and it's, it nails it. And then I just had to figure out how to convince everybody else that this was the right word.

Michelle: But as soon as people heard what it meant, it was like, yeah, this. This is who we are.

Mike: And it like people like me, it forced you to look it up and then I just nodded oh what great metaphor for recovery. I have to ask you all, because I've talked to so many people on this podcast.

Mike: Funding!

Mike: Sorry about bringing that up. Is always a huge issue. A while back we had guests on from a treatment center down in New Orleans who were funding their treatment center in residential sober living through selling used cars and operating a thrift shop. So how have you met the funding challenges that are currently in our lives?

Michelle: It's complicated.

Mike: Yes it is.

Michelle: So we do have a development department that works with donors and grants, and we are always writing grants, looking for support for our programs. 98% of our people are on Medicaid. And that's something we didn't wanna lose also when we merged, is that we knew we needed to diversify our revenue streams, but we also didn't wanna lose who we've always helped. And we've always helped the people who society gave up on.

Mike: Yeah.

Michelle: Who don't have the means to just go anywhere. If you've got money, you can go to treatment really easy. You can find a bed today, but if you don't have money, it's hard.

Michelle: There aren't enough beds. So that's one of the reasons why we really wanted to stay true. And we do work with a lot of counties who help pick up part of the gap that Medicaid leaves in the funding because Medicaid will not pay for room and board for treatment. They will pay for the services only, but we still have to keep the lights on and feed people and give them bedding. We work with counties and tribes to fill in that gap, but it still leaves us a gap.

Mike: Yeah.

Michelle: That we have to write grants and look to donors. And luckily we've been lucky to have loyal donors who help support and believe in us.

Mike: And look what you get back. How many employees do you have, Dan?

Dan: Probably about 40, maybe 45 between the two plants.

Mike: So those are people who are now employed, paying taxes, not draining the other funds. What are you, right? What do they save for every dollar you spend? It's, what do you get back?

Michelle: 12.

Mike: 12. 12. God, I wish we could... let's all holler that today, right?

Michelle: Yeah. We have about 120 staff total.

Mike: Wow.

Michelle: That are doing this work or participating in the program.

Mike: Since you're all long-term employees, I'll let you go with this. I assume that it's incredibly rewarding. Jolie, we'll start with you and then go to Dan and Michelle.

Jolie: Yeah, it is rewarding. Not to say there aren't some, not great moments for sure.

Jolie: But it is very rewarding and I was just talking to two employees about this yesterday. We come to work every day not knowing what we're walking into, and that is also rewarding. It's great when people come back and say hi or send us messages or call us or comment on our Facebook or any other kind of social media post to say that they're doing well.

Jolie: We rally around that and it, I'm getting the goosebumps just talking about it. So I think that what, that's part of what keeps me coming to work every day is just to see these individuals walking through my door, not in a great spot. And by the time they leave, sometimes they're unrecognizable from the day one.

Jolie: And it is, like I said, I have the goosebumps just talking about it.

Mike: Dan, I think if I were you and it, this just, you seem to be similar to me. I would start every day with a bumper sticker and I would walk through and go, keep it simple, stupid, yeah. Just what the heck, right?

Dan: Yeah. For me I love the mission, obviously it's important to me and it's saved my life, and it's part of where I'm at with my family and even my extended family. So I give Apricity and STEP and Mooring a ton of credit for that. So being able to be a part of it for this long and to be able to influence the decisions and the future of, it makes it easy to come to work.

Dan: Early in my career when I was a kid and still drinking, I had a lot of sick days. I probably haven't had that many sick days in 25 plus years since I started sobriety and coming to work, because I really do love it and I, for me I also love the fact that.

Dan: I get a little business side in the packaging and the employment and the figuring out the projects and working with some of our customers. And then I also get the mission side of recovery and helping build people up and helping to support people early in recovery to become better employees and see that transition for them.

Dan: So I get that mix, which is great.

Mike: Awesome. Michelle.

Michelle: Like Jolie said, not every day is glorious, but there's a lot of days that are and I said I was working on our annual report and reading the stories that are in there of people who now have their own house and have their kids back.

Michelle: And, it's just the transformation of not only that person, but how it impacts the loved ones is. It's really compelling and those are the times where it's okay, yep, keep doing this. This is what we need to keep doing and this is worth it.

Mike: I think it's great. I really appreciate... who's running the shop while we're doing this, by the way? I really appreciate the time that you've given us today.

Mike: And you all know that there's links to Apricity's contact information attached to podcast if you wanna drop 'em a note, explore what they do, or support them.

Mike: For those of you listening and watching, we always hope you find hope, insight, courage, and support wherever you are. As always, thanks for listening and watching, and we hope you're well.