Climbing the Rope

[Jaunty Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome, everybody. This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction, brought to you by Westwords Consulting and the Kenosha County Substance Use Disorder Coalition. I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: Long term recovery. It's the obvious goal for anybody with a substance use disorder, even though the mantra is one day at a time.

Mike: Well, those two things aren't mutually exclusive, and we're going to talk about long term recovery today with our guest Janice Claps. Janice is an expressive therapist at Lake Behavioral Hospital in Waukegan, Illinois. As well as a yoga instructor, a CrossFit coach, a meditation teacher, and recovery mentor.

Mike: She's also an active member of the Phoenix Sober Active Community, which we're going to talk about, and describes herself, I hope you don't mind Janice, in her bio as a sober health and wellness professional with a dark sense of humor that enjoys candy and mischief from time to time. That's great. Well, welcome Janice, and Happy New Year.

Mike: This is New Year's Day.

Janice: Happy New Year. Thank you for having me, Mike. I really appreciate it. I'm excited to be here.

Mike: That's great. Well, let's get for those that don't know, what, what does an expressive therapist do?

Janice: So I bring a lot of yoga and meditation to the patients at Lake Behavioral Hospital.

Janice: So I run four groups in the evening and we'll do some chair yoga, regular yoga. We'll practice like a lot of meditation and mindfulness. But sometimes, you know, the patients are just not into it. So, you know, we'll just hang out and listen to music, maybe talk and like process some emotions.

Janice: We'll play some games, you know, especially with the adolescent unit, we'll play apples to apples or charades, stuff like that. So it's a lot of fun. I've met a really phenomenal group of people. It's been a lot of fun.

Mike: That's outstanding. I'll talk about that maybe a little bit later, but one of the best groups I ever ran was during the middle of a thunderstorm where everybody went out and played in the rain and then came in and they just loosened up.

Mike: So it's terrific. Well, you know, Janice, I had a woman I worked with a long time ago. Tell me her version of long term recovery was a month. Since that's the longest term she could make it, and I can empathize with that, but that's not what we're talking about here. How long have you been in recovery?

Mike: What's your definition?

Janice: I mean, so my sober date is February 28th, 2014. So I've been sober over 10 years.

Mike: Congratulations.

Janice: I appreciate it. Thank you. You know, I like to say active recovery because there are still some behaviors that I have that don't necessarily feel sober. It's like, you know, the candy and the mischief.

Janice: But I've abstained from, you know, street drugs and alcohol for over 10 years. And it's a practice, you know, it's something that I, that I work on a little bit every day either with prayer, meditation, fitness. You know, we talk about it in our groups at my job. You know, I have a network of people that are in some sort of recovery.

Janice: Maybe it's not alcohol and drugs, but some sort of recovery that we kind of share, you know, share about what we're experiencing, how we handle it, stuff like that. So, I mean, I feel like long term recovery, It's, it can't, it is, it's kind of subjective because, you know, if you would have told me on my first AA meeting, like, Oh, you're going to have 10 years of recovery.

Janice: I would have been like, yeah, right. You know? So I really do believe in the one day at a time. I mean, there have been moments in my recovery where it's been one hour at a time, you know. (laugh)

Mike: Right.

Janice: Yeah, totally. And it, you know, I feel like as long as you can make it, if you can turn your recovery into the ritual, like, you know, the, whatever your addiction was, you know, like I, I had a huge ritual with like drinking and using.

Janice: And so I've been able to make my recovery the new ritual of like something that I work on a little bit every day. And because of that, I've been able to string a few days together. So. (laugh)

Mike: Well, that's right. Right. One day becomes 10 years.

Janice: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Mike: Well, how did it change over time?

Mike: Like, we're, you know, right in the middle of the holiday season, right? When we live in a part of the country, maybe most parts are like this, but I think ours is excessive. Where consumption is a huge part. So how did recovery change over time for you? And how did your relationships change?

Janice: Luckily family was very supportive.

Janice: And my mom has, she's been in recovery from alcohol for over 30 years. So luckily they were supportive to be around. I, I have a big family. I do have some brothers and sisters that still drink. My nieces and nephews will drink. And so in the beginning, like, if it got to be, you know, a little too much to kind of be around, like, I felt okay, like, hey guys, you know, I'm gonna go home or I'm gonna step away or go for a walk.

Janice: Like, there were plenty of times on Thanksgiving that I was like, I'm gonna go for a walk for an hour to kind of remove myself from whatever is going on here.

Janice: Luckily, it was never like chaotic or anything, but and just, you know, kind of learning that, learning that boundary and like learning that, like, you know, I have the control to make that choice for myself, you know, which when I was actively using like I always felt like everybody had to cater to my needs.

Janice: I'm like, you know... (laugh)

Mike: Right, right.

Janice: Yeah. So yeah, in early recovery. It was, you know, it was, it was challenging. Definitely like friendships have kind of morphed over the years. I still have a lot of, you know, people that are close to me that, you know, were close to me when I was, when I was out there. And you know, like luckily they've kind of grown and changed and morphed as well.

Janice: Like some of the people that were, you know, were still actively using or are still actively using, they still have a very close place in my heart. You know, if I, if I see them, I mean, it's pretty rare that I would see them cause I don't really go to functions where I would see people like actively using, you know, speed or anything. (laugh)

Janice: But if, you know, our paths should cross, like I'm always, you know, they're still very dear to me and I hope that, you know, they are healthy and prospering. But I also have to understand that it's like, It's not up to me to, to sober somebody up. If, you know, if, if somebody is struggling and they want to help and they reach out to me, like, of course I want to be there to help anybody that needs it, but I obviously I can't change anybody either. So.

Mike: Well, that not going is part of what I wanted to get to next. Cause you wrote a blog post. I read, I don't remember where I read it now, but I think you call it finding grace. And you wrote where you said you had a stomach ache and not be, not because you were sick, cause you were overindulged in treats, because you eat your feelings when stressed.

Mike: And then you say, and this is a great quote. Predicaments wholly self imposed through my own thoughts, actions, and behaviors.

Janice: Yes. (laugh)

Mike: Well, that's taking responsibility, so the stomachache is your fault.

Janice: Oh yeah, absolutely. I remember that day perfectly. I do. I eat my feelings. I mean, maybe I need to go to Overeaters Anonymous or something.

Janice: I don't know. Like, luckily I'm pretty active, so I feel like I can get away with it. But yeah, I, with the stress of losing my job and, you know, not really being sure of what was going to happen I, you know, bought an extra box of Nutty Bars and I think I ate, ate four in one day and there's two Nutty Bars to a package.

Janice: And yeah, I was just like, Oh, my stomach is killing me. And just like, well, I did this to myself. Like I did not, you know, I could have made better choices with my food. I, maybe I could have, you know, practice another like healthier, healthier ritual, healthier routine. But you know, that's, that was my, you know, what I needed at the time.

Janice: And yeah, and I didn't feel great and it kind of ruined my whole morning that day. (laugh)

Mike: Well, and you also said, I think in the same article, that you overspend, another common thing.

Janice: Yes.

Mike: To fill the void of loss, fear, and uncertainty. Now, my question is, how do you get to that level of self awareness? Because that's one of the keys, I think, to, to recovery.

Janice: Yeah, yeah. And I think especially long term recovery too. It's, I mean, that's really been a practice for me. I mean, I think like, I have always kind of had this dark sense of humor, this sort of self deprecating sense of humor. And so, and people like, you know, friends, family would be like, Oh, you know, you should be kinder to yourself or whatever.

Janice: But there's always been a little truth to what I joke about. And I've gotten a lot better. Like I don't, you know, do the negative self talk and stuff like that that I did when I was younger. But I think like having that dedicated practice of meditation, like practicing, you know, like practicing that type of meditation that develops that awareness.

Janice: And I wish I could remember when I can't remember if it's like this, like a Zen meditation. But you know, kind of like looking at those, those like shadowy bits of us, dark shadowy parts that a lot of times, like, especially when we're using, we you know, try to hide it completely with whatever drugs, alcohol, spending, eating, scrolling, whatnot.

Janice: Like really being able to sit with that and look at it and realize that like this, you know, these feelings are coming from somewhere and like where exactly is it coming from? I think you know what it was I practiced.... There's Dr. Joe Dispenza. I don't know if you've ever heard of him.

Janice: He's on the Gaia channel a lot. He's got a really interesting program called rewired about like rewiring your brain. You can find some of his meditations on like YouTube and stuff, but I did actually download, I feel like it paid for it. A download of his meditation and it's called breaking the habit of being yourself.

Janice: And I practiced that meditation. daily for a few months. And it's about an hour. It's about an hour long. This was during COVID where I like was barely working. So I had the time to do it. And practicing that meditation specifically really helped me understand the kind of the darker shadowy parts of myself that I was unwilling to look at or even unable to look at.

Janice: And I feel like that helps. You know, kind of like cultivate a little bit more of that self awareness and especially in like a healthier way, like not just in the self deprecating sense of humor kind of way, but in that way that I can you know, like understand, like, you know, why I'm doing these things.

Janice: I still do these things, but at least now.

Mike: (laugh)

Janice: Okay. I get it. I'm stressed out.

Mike: And it's not, it's not easy to sit in those feelings, right? The, the tendency is to eat, spend, use. Right?

Janice: Yeah.

Mike: And so to sit in those feelings is practicing. It's more than just a mantra. It's actually practicing it.

Janice: Yes. Absolutely.

Janice: Absolutely. And, you know, like, to be able to sit in the meditation, you know, whether it's a guided meditation like that, or even just, you know, having a timer set with maybe a bell every, you know, two or three minutes or whatnot to kind of keep you, you know, centered in that space. And then you know, like journaling about it a little bit, like, you know, maybe writing down what came up, you know, what feelings came up.

Janice: And, you know, like I had some pretty dark stuff come up when I was practicing that. And would kind of write it out and ask myself questions like, well, where, where is this coming from? Why, you know, like, how long have I carried this? And, you know, that sort of like introspection to be able to kind of dissect it a little bit more and understand it a little bit more. So.

Mike: Well, and then transferring it to something positive. So how did you discover, or were you already into yoga, meditation, CrossFit specifically. Cause when you do CrossFit, you're working yourself to exhaustion.

Janice: Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I've, I've been a yogi for almost my whole adult life. I think my first yoga class I went to, I was like 19 years old.

Janice: So yeah, that was 30 years ago. (laugh) And I mean, I've been in and out of it, but like I've always been very fascinated and interested in yoga. So now that like I'm able to teach it and, you know, guide people through it, it's been, it's really been a blessing. I've really enjoyed it. I got into CrossFit about I was about two years sober.

Janice: I had some friends of mine, some girlfriends of mine are like, I really think you'd like it. I think you'd really benefit from it because I knew I was struggling and at the time, like I was two years sober going to AA meetings, but I was in a horrible relationship with somebody terribly abusive. I had never experienced a relationship like that before, but you know, I got into this relationship when I was like six months sober. (laugh)

Mike: Yeah. Great timing.

Janice: Great timing. My sponsor at the time was like, I don't really think this is a good idea. I advise against it, but you know, it's your call. I'm like, Oh, I'm, I'm six months sober. I think I'm healed. Like I can handle this. And yeah, it was (laugh) terrible, terrible. And it's funny when I look back, I mean, there's like hindsight is 20/20, right?

Janice: Like there were so many red flags the day I met this person. And even just how I presented myself to the world that like You know, I'm six months sober. Like I don't love myself. I don't value myself. Like the only good thing I have going for me is that I'm six months sober. Like inside I am still completely broken, but you know, my brain was like, Oh, but you're sober.

Janice: So it's all good. (laugh)

Mike: I'm going to stop you for a minute. Cause you just did something where you illustrated a point. And I think people who are listening to this zoom right over it. You started talking about the relationship and the horrible choice, but then you owned it like that.

Janice: Yeah.

Mike: You presented yourself to the world now that that's a transition right Janice You didn't you just did that that's now coming naturally for you.

Janice: Yeah, and then it took a lot of work. It took a lot of work And I think that like finding CrossFit and that outlet for that was really really helpful

Mike: What you think the first time you did CrossFit?

Janice: Well, I, the first few classes I went to, I like, I enjoyed it. It was fun. I felt like a kid again, like we were jump roping and jumping around and swinging from the pull up bar and stuff.

Janice: So I, it was a lot of fun. It was a really fun community. It was, there was a small gym in Chicago. I'm not even sure if it's there anymore. Cause this was pre COVID, but it was probably about two or three weeks into this adventure. That, there were rope climbs and I have never climbed a rope in my life.

Janice: Like what, like what, like, this is not going to happen, but the coach, like he took the time to like guide me through it and explained it. Like, it's really, this is all how you wrap your feet and your legs. This is not, you're not pulling with your arms. Cause I mean, I still don't have great arm strength, but like, I was always thinking, like pulling yourself up with your arms. So he guided me through it. Like we sat on a box and showed me how to wrap my feet, how to stand up. And within a half an hour, I climbed, climbed the 15 foot rope. And I like, I got to the top and I, Mike, I felt like I was up there for an hour. Like, I'm sure it was only like a few seconds, but at the top of that rope, I was like, what the heck am I doing?

Janice: Like, I'm with this person who's awful, like I'm not really paying any attention to myself and like how I'm being treated, how like, yeah, you know, this person is not valuing me, I'm not valuing me. Like it was like my whole perspective changed just being at the top of the rope. And yeah, I stuck with CrossFit within a couple of months that person and I, we broke up.

Janice: I kicked him out of my house. Called the police because it was like, of course it ended terribly. (laugh)

Mike: Yeah, right.

Janice: And it was just like, I put the boundary down. Like, you know, he tried reaching out for months afterwards and I was like, no, no, this is not. Like, I am done with this. I am, this part of my life is over.

Janice: I am never going to allow myself to be treated like that again. And I moved back home with my mom. This is in Illinois. I moved back home with my mom in Huntley. And I found a CrossFit gym out there. And, like, they really became my family. Like, my recovery family. That first, you know, that subsequent few years after that and there were, you know, people in the gym who are in recovery from drugs and alcohol and, you know, people that just had their own issues, but we all kind of came together and, like, worked through it there.

Janice: And it was, it was just such a great. It was such a wonderful community of people. And I found the same, you know, the same thing at my gym here in Kenosha. I mean, it's, they're just awesome people. Everybody's helpful. Everybody's supportive. You know, you find people that you kind of want to be like, or kind of want to emulate.

Janice: And I see these, you know, these strong women at my gym, my old gym, the new gym. That I'm like, that's, that's what I want to be. I want to be not just like physically strong. I think physically strong is cool. I do want to be physically stronger, but just that, like to show up every day, to be consistent, to be accountable, to be, you know, like just, you just get in there and do the work and you do your best, you know, cause that, like, I, that was not, that was not my MO when I was out there.

Janice: Like I was just like barely showed up 90 percent of the time. (laugh)

Mike: God, there's so many great analogies to recovery and what you just, the stories you just told from the rope climb to showing up every day. You found something called the Phoenix Sober Active Community for those not familiar with it. And we'll put links to them at the end of this podcast.

Mike: Tell us about that.

Janice: So the Phoenix is yeah, it's a national nonprofit organization. I found them... again, this is pre COVID. I think I was listening to a CrossFit podcast at work and they had on Scott Strode, who is the gentleman that created the Phoenix and just talking about like, you know, his struggle with his addiction and how he found just like a community of people that were into like fitness and movement. And I, I don't think his jam was CrossFit. I feel like he got into like rock climbing or something. I can't remember. He did just come out with a book that I haven't read yet, but it was kind of the same thing with me and the rope climb in the community.

Janice: So listening to the podcast, like I got really inspired and they talked about how they're, you know, they're always looking for volunteers. You know, to host classes. So that's how I got into, hosting the classes at my gym. I contacted them, it took a couple of months, but you know, they set me up to get my CrossFit level one to be able to coach, and then I believe it was like February of 2019.

Janice: That I had my first Phoenix class at my CrossFit gym and in Crystal Lake, Illinois. And I, I had a lot of people show up the first few weeks. There were some weeks where like I get one or two people and then some weeks where I get 15 people. But it was a blast. We had a great time. So I would host a free class every Saturday for people in recovery.

Janice: And yeah, we would just start with an icebreaker, kind of go over the, like, you know, the workout we were going to do. And of course, like everything can be modified. So if somebody had never done CrossFit before, you know, it's, we're not like, Hey, we're going to back squat our body weight today, you know? (laugh)

Janice: No, I like, cause I know a lot of people that have never done CrossFit can be really intimidated by it.

Mike: Yeah.

Janice: Yeah, I'm here to tell you that it's like everything, everything can be modified to your ability like it's don't be scared of it because it's awesome. (laugh)

Mike: One of the parts I like about CrossFit Janice is when I watch the competition on TV is that even those who finish turn back around oftentimes right away and start cheering for the people right behind them.

Janice: Yeah.

Mike: That's kind of awesome!

Janice: It is, it is, it's really it's really awesome. And you see the same, that same energy like in a class at the gym. You know like its kind of like in an AA meeting where they say like, you know the the newest person here is the most important person here and it's kind of like that's sort of the M. O. like in a class, like, you know, people are like, I'm the last person to finish, but everybody's crowded around them. Come on, like, you got this, you got this, you know, and it's very, like, it's so encouraging and so empowering that it's just like, yeah, I'm doing it, you know? So.

Mike: Well, in your blog post, you wrote, you used the word in your blog.

Mike: Am I pronouncing this correct? Saṃsāra?

Janice: Yeah, Saṃsāra.

Mike: I looked it up. It's Sanskrit, right?

Janice: Yeah.

Mike: And it has several meanings. One of them is rebirth. How did you mean it?

Janice: So the way, in that blog post specifically, I kind of being caught in that loop. So like...

Mike: Running in circles was another one.

Janice: Running in circles. Yeah. And kind of like chasing your tail and like you almost feel like you're sort of being reborn into this same vicious circle. And so that was sort of how I meant it in that blog post of just kind of going in circles with this, like, you know, Nutty Bar fiasco or whatever. (laugh)

Mike: Maybe I'll title the podcast the Nutty Bar. (laugh)

Janice: The Nutty Bar Fiasco. Yes. (laugh) But yeah, I mean, I think like you can, you know, hopefully like every time we are reborn, and I don't mean like, you know, like literally like we die and we're reborn. But, you know, when we kind of get caught in these loops, caught in these cycles, like if we're able to come out of it, be reborn out of it, and glean something from that, that we can you know, carrying to the next experience because, you know, there's always going to be something we get caught up in that might not be great, you know, but if we can glean something from that last cycle of craziness, and then apply it to this.

Janice: Next, hopefully, not as acute cycle of craziness that like makes it a little easier to come out of or maybe not as, not as challenging, you know.

Mike: I love that. And that's the difference between you now, right? And when you look back when you were really caught in that cycle, but it was downward.

Janice: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Janice: Absolutely. I was, I mean, I, I remember, it's so funny to even, it cracks me up to even talk about it because I'm like, how is that? How am I even this person? But like, I mean, I remember being, so, so cracked out. I like speed was my drug of choice. Speed and alcohol. I mean, my drug of choice was more, let's be fair, but like but my, my two go tos were, were speed and alcohol.

Janice: And I just remember being awake at like four in the morning, trying to sleep, like, you know, drunk because I'm trying to put myself to sleep with Jamison or whatever, and having this like, well I'm just, I'm clearly possessed. Like this, I'm possessed by the devil. Like, this is not me. And it was such a rational thought in my head that like, oh yeah, no, this is, this is not my fault.

Janice: I'm, this, this is a darker energy at work. And like, now that I've, kind of come through this that is just like, well, it was a darker energy at work, but that darker energy was me. It was not the devil. Like this was just like a very sick, traumatized part of me that I couldn't figure out how to operate in the world, you know, like and my dog's getting riled up.

Mike: That's great. I was, you know, part of me was hoping that was a dog.

Janice: As I'm just talking about being possessed by the devil. (laugh) But yeah, I mean, it's been like, I don't want to say it's been super challenging. I, of course, there has been challenges. As there always are, you know, like I lost my brother and my nephew in 2021.

Janice: Very, both very unexpectedly, like, you know, losing my job, COVID, like there's always something that's going to throw us for a loop, whether it's self imposed, like I made this decision to eat poorly or whatnot, or, you know, like there's a pandemic and everything has to get shut down. And like, like the more tools that we can gather to, you know, to, again, to learn like how to operate in the world and how to operate, you know, with friends and family and the community you know, just to make this experience, you know, hopefully we can make it more joyful and enjoyable, but sometimes it is just like learning, like, okay, how can I get through this without drinking?

Janice: How can I get through this without using or blowing up on my partner or, you know, like it's been you know, there's just been so many lessons and tools and all that, that I've been able to, to apply and like, and hopefully that I can, you know, share with other people if, you know, if they want to learn about it, so. (laugh)

Mike: What a great spot to end a New Year's message. I mean, it's all about hope moving forward and decisions. Janice, it's just been a blast.

Janice: Yeah. Oh, I've really enjoyed this, Mike. Thank you so much for having me.

Mike: Well, you know, we're gonna, as you know who listen, we put links to the Phoenix Sober Active Community, the national site, and it's many resources attached to the podcast.

Mike: Thanks again, Janice, for being with us.

Mike: And for all of you listening, join us anytime you're able. Until then, stay safe, live well, and I guess, what? Climb the rope.

Janice: Climb the rope. Absolutely. Take a deep breath and climb the rope.