Curveballs

[Jaunty Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome, everybody. This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction, brought to you by Westwords Consulting and the Kenosha County Substance Use Disorder Coalition. I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: Not everybody's second act in life is as impactful as the one of my guests today. Gail Taylor had remarkable success as an investment advisor and extensive expertise in finance.

Mike: She then embarked on a profound second act that transformed her into a prolific songwriter, motivational speaker, and philanthropic force. Her new book, just a delightful new book, Curveballs, is all about self discovery and chasing dreams with personal stories and tools that shaped her past. She focuses on embracing authenticity and how living with purpose and passion is achievable.

Mike: Welcome Gail.

Gail: Thank you, and thank you so much for having me. I'm really honored to be here.

Mike: Well, that's great, and you're, we're talking, you're in where did you say again? Somewhere in Canada, right?

Gail: I'm in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, so I'm right above Montana.

Mike: And, and how's the weather there today?

Gail: It's not bad.

Gail: Not bad. It's not, it's not a warm day. We're starting to get some winter weather here, a little bit of snow on the ground, but I don't mind the cold, so it's all good.

Mike: Yeah, when you said not bad, we just got a bit of the Canadian in there as well. Well, Gail, I want to talk about your book, obviously, but before we get into it, I mentioned in the introduction about your life's second act, but as I read it, really, really good.

Mike: This is more like a third or fourth act for you. So let's go back a little, cause I think that's where the journey starts, right? You start your book with a story about your dad.

Gail: Yeah. So when I was 12 years old, my father died and I didn't do well. I got traumatized from it. What happened? Well, this is how traumatized I got.

Gail: I kept him alive for two years. I pretended that he was a spy for the government. And that they had to say he was dead for our safety and that, you know, someday he was going to walk in the front door and join the family for supper. I literally kept him alive for two years. But what happened was when he died, we lived in a small town in northern Ontario, and my mom had... well, he died in March and they gave her to the end of the school year to find a new place Because you know, I actually thought we were financially okay, but my dad was a miner and the mine owned the town. So now we didn't have anybody working for the mine. So he died in march. They said to her you have to move by the end of june She had six kids and was in her mid 30s So she took us to Ottawa which was, you know, a city that wasn't too close to where we were.

Gail: And she told me years later, I did that because I felt like I could get a job there. And it was my best chance of keeping the six of you together and keeping us off welfare. And so she moved us to the city and the city kind of swallowed me up and spit me out. (chuckle) You know, when I tell my stories, I like to say, I come from a place of healed scars and not open wounds.

Gail: I've gone through the personal growth journey and I'm very, very fortunate that that I am where I am, that I am where I am in life. But at that point in the journey, I didn't do too well. Mom would come home from work exhausted. She'd have supper with us and then she'd go to bed and cry herself to sleep because she just lost the love of her life. And so trying to deal with the loss myself and all this strange place and I turned to drugs and alcohol and reckless behavior before my 13th birthday, so 12 years old.

Mike: And that's really young.

Gail: Oh, I was sneaking out of the house, hitchhiking to a seedier part of the city, hanging around with older kids, getting stoned, hitchhiking home at two o'clock in the morning.

Gail: My mom was none the wiser. And you know, I'm actually I'm lucky I'm alive. Like when, when you read about that type of behavior now, holy mackerel, I'm lucky I made it through. And I stayed really dysfunctional for over 10 years. I was in my mid 20s when I woke up one day, looked around at the mess I made in my house, in my soul, and thought, man, there's got to be more to life than this.

Gail: There's got to be something I can do differently. And it was that spark that started my first, like you said, reinventing myself. That was my first chapter one of getting out of the dysfunction. And I decided that... I bought Napoleon Hill's book, Think and Grow Rich. (laugh) A lot of people have heard about it or read it.

Gail: In Napoleon, in, and this is the 70s, right? In Napoleon Hill, rich wasn't money. Rich was whatever you wanted it to be. It could be your family. It could be whatever your passion was. I was a dysfunctional 20 something year old, so I made it money. And my journey went to focusing on becoming financially successful.

Gail: I wanted the good life. (laugh) And so I went on this journey to get it. And, but I still didn't know I was an addict. I still hadn't, you know, I'm still in denial. I had to do a lot less consumption because now I was learning and working and stuff, but I still didn't quite get it. And so I was working 10 or 12 hours a day and I was at the end of the workday.

Gail: I was hitting the bars and getting high. And if you read my book, you know, the next part of the story, I had a three year old son.

Mike: Mm hmm.

Gail: And so my three year old son, unfortunately, you know, I thought I'll make sure he's with caregivers that love him and I'll say the quantity time, the quality time that I have with them is going to be what matters.

Gail: But yeah, for me, that was perhaps it didn't work.

Mike: It is amazing when we're in the throes of things like that. the stories we tell ourselves to make ourselves feel better, right? And when it, you know, you talked about it when you in your twenties, I thought that was such a great line. I think that your line was then in my twenties, I didn't want this to be my life story.

Mike: Well, that's what happens with addiction, right? There goes a decade, boom, it's gone. But instead of ruminating and pouting about it, you turn it around.

Gail: Yeah. Yeah. I started on that journey to become a lifelong learner. I mean, I've been studying personal growth and peak performance for 40 years now. (laugh)

Gail: And so when I started on the journey, but the next chapter was ended up when my son was 12 years old. I moved out here from Ottawa, which is in Eastern Canada, to Edmonton in Western Canada and I changed his city, I brought a new man into his life, I changed his school, his friends, and he spiraled.

Gail: He went through the same thing I went through, of course, right? And he got, started getting into drugs and he got into opioids, and so for me it was like, this was the first time in my life I stopped doing mind altering substances on a daily basis, because I started studying how to help a dysfunctional teenager. (laugh)

Gail: And when I started reading all what he was going through, the light bulb came on and I realized, yeah, you know, you're a functional addict. You know, you're not admitting to addiction, but you're a functional addict. And I use that term loosely, right? Functional because I could keep a job and, but you know, there's... (laugh) Like I said, I use the term loosely.

Gail: And when I share the story, my son's in recovery now. And when I share our story, I have his permission. He's one of my best friends, and he's okay with me sharing our story. And, you know, when we talk about it, the belief we both have is that if he hadn't have gone into recovery when he did, he'd be dead.

Gail: Because with the fentanyl that's in the opioids right now and what's going on, I mean, in my country alone we had 6,000 overdose deaths in 2023. You guys had over a hundred thousand.

Mike: Yep.

Gail: And the, and a lot of these people are between the ages of 20 and 39. Like they're young souls and it is just the scariest thing.

Gail: And so, yeah. So I learned everything there was to learn, right? Whether it was what codependency, enabling, boundaries, compartmentalizing. (laugh) I learned, you it all I studied this thing and I got it mastered because he hated me. And he hated me so much for all the mistakes that I made. And so I learned that, I don't have to take the phone call that asks for money for drugs and then gets verbally abusive and calls me everything under the sun because of the mistakes I made.

Gail: I don't need to take that call. But I can be in the background and say, hey, when you're ready for rehab, you can call me. I'll be the support. I'll be the advocate. I'll get you into a place. You know, when you hit your bottom and you want help, I'm here. But in the meantime, I'm not a punching bag. And so if you made it to the end of the, I think one of the last chapters in my book, I wrote a song called Wings and it's giving people permission to be happy, even though they have a loved one that's struggling. Because you're on a parallel journey and you don't get to do their journey.

Gail: You just get to do yours.

Mike: You talked about exploring it in such an analytical manner, right? You attacked it. And then you were worked in finance which I don't think anyone would describe as necessarily creative. And then you flipped it and ended up doing the motivational talks, the writing, the songwriting.

Mike: And I was delighted for those of you who get the book, and you should. At the end of the chapters, there's a QR code. And the QR code that came with it just, that's analytical I suppose. And the QR code links to your music, which is just amazing. And it also ties into the chapter.

Gail: Yeah. I put a soundtrack in my book. (laugh)

Mike: I got to ask you, did you write the songs and then form the chapter around it?

Mike: Or how did, how did that process go?

Gail: Actually a couple of them, right? I write inspirational music. So what happened was after 25 years as a financial advisor, and I loved it. I was really good at my job. I loved it. I was helping my clients become financially independent so that they could retire.

Gail: And have a similar lifestyle to what they work and doing the same with myself. And then when I was 58 years old, I started taking piano lessons and I had no music background. Like I'd never taken a lesson in my life and I fell in love with it. Actually, music started to flood back into my life in the sense of even listening to it.

Gail: I didn't realize that, you know, on the way to work, I was listening to economic books. And so after two years of piano lessons, I might not know how to play two songs. I thought, I'm going to retire a little earlier than I had planned. I'm going to study music full time. So at 61, I sold my practice. And like I said, I was, I was managing $130 million.

Gail: And so I sold my practice and I started studying. I had private teachers, Berkeley. I got to study with Berkeley School of Music because when you study with them online, you don't have to audition (laugh), which was, you know, I didn't have any talent here. So I was taking bass guitar, piano. songwriting, ear training.

Gail: And so after two years of studying music full time, I thought, I'm going to reinvent myself as a musician. And when I shared that story with folks, I kept getting the same response. "Gail, that's so inspiring. I'm going to go do badeep badeep." Something they had put on the back burner. And like, I was hearing that from strangers, you know, talking to people on the airplane.

Gail: So I kept getting "That's so inspiring. I'm going to go do...", and I thought, whoa, nevermind. I don't want to be a musician. (laugh) I'm going to come out of retirement. I'm going to start a business, Gail Taylor Music, become a keynote speaker, and I'm going to use my songs because songs are healing. And so I'm going to use my inspirational songs and my stories.

Gail: And I'm going to help folks become their best selves. And so that's how the business evolved. And then I hired an entertainment lawyer to help me getting it all set up. And he said, look, you know, with everything you've just shared with me, write a book and that'll give you the credibility. And I thought, okay, no problem.

Gail: I had written one before.

Mike: (laugh) No problem.

Gail: Yeah, I know. It took a year. (laugh) So yeah, that's how that ended up evolving. And with today's technology, I could bring my songs to life. Like you don't need to have a record label or an established artist or your song stays in a file. I was able to hire studio musicians and work with a studio And I was able to bring them all to life myself and then distribute them through an indie distributor.

Gail: So now they're on Spotify and Apple and YouTube and, you know, yeah. So that was, I mean, out of my, my catalog of 18 songs, I'm only playing on five of them. I'm playing the keyboards on five of them, but for the most part, I'm just the creator of them.

Mike: Well, the songs are beautiful, and so is the poetry, I might add.

Mike: It's just, it is inspiring. And I think, you say at one point in your book, as you go upon that journey, and I think a lot of people will relate to this, you say you felt like an imposter for a while. And I think a lot of people, even newly into recovery, can identify with that feeling that as we start a new journey, we feel like an imposter.

Gail: Yeah, yeah, there's no question that imposter syndrome and even whatever profession you're in or just even as a person. I mentioned this in the book like David Bowie, Billie Eilish, like these people felt like imposters. They're gonna find out that I'm not as as talented as they think. No, no, I think being real to yourself is what really matters. Don't try to pretend that you're something that you're not. You're allowed to be at the level of your journey that you're at and accepting it, right? And that's the biggest thing is that we don't have to you know, like I'm, I'm a beginner intermediate musician even to this day, but that's okay.

Gail: I don't have to be an advanced so, so yeah, being real to yourself. And then in that same chapter, I think I talk about your internal dialogue, cause I think that was a game changer for me. Once I got rid of all the negative self sabotaging thoughts, right? And so, oh yeah, I, you know, I'm not this.

Gail: Once I got rid of that and I was able to, well there was a couple of books, but one I read by Gail Olenkova. She was a long distance runner in the 70s and she wrote a book called I Got This and that was the one that really taught me if I found myself in my head thinking negative thoughts, then I used her mantra, which was garbage in, garbage out (laugh) , right?

Gail: And then shifted the thinking. And, you know, I'll say this to the listeners. This is like training for a marathon. It doesn't happen, you know, it's not a New Year's resolution that you're going to drop in two weeks. When you start shifting, you can rewire your brain and coming out of addiction is the perfect time to rewire it.

Gail: And so, you know, my example that I'll give you is if I'm doing a proposal for a keynote speech and I'm filling it out and I might think Oooh why bother filling this out? Well, you know, why would they hire me? They've already heard everything I have to say or there's so many other speakers. Why would they pay my fee?

Gail: Garbage in, garbage out. And I'll yell it. I'll be in my car, garbage in... And then I'll rephrase it and say, Oh my God, I'm so excited that I came across this proposal. I'm a perfect fit for them. I can share my stories. I can inspire them to do whatever it is they're putting on the back burner. That's the rephrasing and you just work at it every single day until you're like me and you end up with rose color glasses even in your sleep (laugh).

Mike: Well, and you are I mean you are good at that.

Mike: It comes across in your book It absolutely has come across in our conversation already. You're really good at reframing and turning things into positives.

Gail: But it was training, right? It was training. And so everybody, like, that's what I say. Everybody can do it.

Mike: How long before it feels like that's your just natural go to?

Mike: Because it clearly is now your natural go to.

Gail: Yes, and I would say probably when I first started coming out of addiction and I first started to work on it, I'm going to say it took a couple of years before it started to you know, really settle in. And that's why I say it's like training for a marathon.

Gail: I mean, you feel it after a week. Once you start doing it, once you find, and your mantra, you know, what you do might not be garbage in, garbage out. It might be something else. It might be, I got this, but getting that shift. I actually designed some pendants. A line of pendants. This one says staying young as a tactile item for people so that when you're in your head, You know, like Tony Robbins says, if you're in your head, you're dead (laugh).

Gail: So if you grab the pendant and just rub it and use it as a tactile item to get yourself to shift. And once you start doing that on a daily basis, so you know, the first time you do it might be once a day, then twice a day, then three times a day, then you don't even need to do it all of a sudden because you're, you don't, you don't sabotage yourself anymore.

Gail: Or when I. It's about curveballs, right? The book's called Curveballs. When life throws curveballs at you, that means you're living. You're supposed to get curveballs (laugh). You're not in a bubble. I mean, that's part of what life is. It's not the curveballs that matter. It's what you do with them. So when life throws you a curveball, you look at it and say, okay, what's the lesson here?

Gail: How can I turn this around? And you work with it. You use it as a growth, as a stepping stone.

Mike: Well, and you have a quote in your book that attitude makes the difference between getting better and simply getting older.

Gail: Right. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Attitude, right? One thing we can control is our attitude.

Mike: You know talk for a minute about you know, I thought, found it was interesting. There's an old saying, you know, karma is, well, karma is what it is, right? That your son went through his stuff just around the same age where you went through your stuff. It must have been like looking in a mirror, you know, and seeing a reflection of yourself.

Mike: And yet you talk about if you could look back now at your own mom. You have this wonderful quote that says if you could tell your 15 year old self something, it would have been, do you remember what you said?

Gail: Well, I would have said you're an idiot (laugh).

Mike: That was pretty close. Yep.

Gail: Yeah, like I I was there's no question I did some really stupid things during that you know during my teenage years and like I said being in active addiction. And you know, anyone that's listening to your call that is, that has experienced addiction, you know that one of the symptoms of addiction is selfishness.

Gail: And I was very, very selfish, and I did not understand other people's emotions. You don't get them. And so I hurt my mom. I hitchhiked across the country when I was 16 years old.

Mike: That was an amazing story.

Gail: I was 15. I ran away from home with my boyfriend and $7, hitchhiked across the country. And this is my poor mother who lost her husband and is raising these kids, three kids, three years ago.

Gail: And one of them decides to hitchhike across the country. Like how, oh my God, I was, I was a jerk. There was no, you know, there was no doubt about it. And then when my son started going through it, and as I brought forward, it was actually the first time in my life that I even realized what was going on with me.

Mike: Yeah.

Gail: Right? Right. I had reduced a lot and I had moved on to just you know, marijuana and alcohol because I was somewhat functional, but yeah, I use that term loosely.

Mike: Well, that takes time also, right? And maturity is that recognition that, yeah, I was a jerk back in the day, and then making amends for it.

Gail: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And there's a lot of different ways coming out of recovery, right? Whether you're going to rehab. Like, I went to rehab one time as a family member, as a guest, and I asked the question to one of the counselors, how come I didn't have to go to rehab to get clean and so many people do and he said because you did what we call hitting a high bottom and that's where I used the term I was a functional addict because I could still have a job and I could still pay my bills but you know you know there's four different stages of addiction and the fact that I got stuck in a middle stage.

Gail: I was still stuck and I was still pretty messed up. So yeah, when Corey started going through what he started going through, it was a real eye opener for me to be able to help him. I had to look at it and say, Oh (laugh), it looks like you're deeper into this than you thought you were. And so, yeah, that was, that was definitely a second bottom. I'll call that my second bottom. And it was a real eye opener for me and a new shift into me as a person.

Mike: You started this by saying, and I love that, and you put it in your book that you, you tell stories about him with his permission. And he's better. He's in recovery. How long did it take before you got your relationship back where you wanted it?

Gail: It was, it took a little while. We hadn't spoken for a couple of years. He had gone to rehab a number of times, but this last time that he got off of the opioids, he used Suboxone. And he had been on the Suboxone, I'm going to say, for six months when he reached out and said, you know, I'd like to establish a relationship with you.

Gail: I've been clean for six months. And it was, yeah, I'm here. I'm willing to do a relationship, but I just have a question. Like, You don't like me. Every time you talk to me, everything I say sort of triggers some form of Ahhh! And I said, so, you know, are you sure about this (laugh)? Cause I don't, you don't seem to like the person I am.

Gail: And he said, no, I would like to have a relationship with you. And for six months, we were on pins and needles because he was still coming out of it. Right? There was still a little bit of delusional talk that was, but hey, I was in. I was gonna see if we could make this happen.

Gail: You know they say, six months after you abstain, the fog lifts in your brain, right? That it takes six months before the fog actually lifts for the first time and you start seeing things. And so it was pretty neat to watch him. It went a little bit slower because of the strength of the drug and because of the process that he used to get off of it.

Gail: But I think it doesn't matter what you use, right? It was like this, this epidemic we have and the problem that we have. Our society is trying so hard, whether it's rehab or 12 step, whether you're going to NA or whether you're you know, using Suboxone or whether if you're still in active addiction, going to safe injection sites.

Gail: There's so many different things right now to try to figure out how we're going to deal with the situation that, you know, one size doesn't fit all.

Mike: There's no time limit for liking or for love, is there?

Gail: Nope. And it was yeah, it was pretty neat coming back into the, coming back into the, to the relationship that we have right now.

Mike: Great. Well, the book, I'll hold it up for people who are seeing this on YouTube, it's called Curveballs. It is just, it's, it's an easy read, but it's really good. And I went back to it several times. I had to pause the song about your dad and then come back to it because it created an emotional response, right?

Mike: It's really good. Gail, thanks for your work. Thanks for being with us.

Mike: You all know there are links to Gail Taylor Music, to her art, to her book, to her music. And thanks everybody for listening. Listen anytime you're able. And until next time, stay safe, and I think Gail would say, learn to hit a curveball.