Honor Bound

[Upbeat Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome, everybody. This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction, brought to you by Westwords Consulting and the Kenosha County Substance Use Disorder Coalition. I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: Tom LaGrave is in recovery and has been sober for many, many years. He is living proof that hope exists. Mr. LaGrave is a former Navy SEAL.

Mike: His military career, though, ended due to drug use. After a recovery program, he set out on a new journey. It began with him working with adolescents, then a return to higher education, and finally licensure as a licensed clinical social worker. He is the author of a new book called Special Warfare Social Warfare, which pulls together all of his many years of experience, giving a hope, especially to those who are younger.

Mike: Welcome, Tom.

Tom: Thank you, Michael.

Tom: Pleasure to be here.

Mike: Yeah, I want to get to the book and your Honor Bound Academy in a few minutes, but you joined the Navy. Did I get this right, right out of high school?

Tom: No, I actually went to college for a year and then from there ended up going in the military.

Mike: And from the Navy, tell us about how the Navy SEALs came about?

Tom: Okay, so let's start with my addiction at the age of 14.

Mike: Oh yes, please. Yeah.

Tom: So it starts there and it was experimentation or addiction. For me, it was addiction. And so I, as shared, I went to St. Mary's College right out of high school with a football scholarship and did not realize that I was supposed to go to school.

Tom: I just went there to play football and got put on academic probation, lost the scholarship, which meant I had to go back to my parents home. And from there, at that point I'm not willing to live under the rules of my father. And so I decided the best way to find my way out of the home is to have something that's legitimate.

Tom: 1979. So Vietnam just ended in 1975. Nobody wanted to go in the military. And I'm like, well, let's make something of it. Always wanted to be a doctor. So I went wanting to be in the Navy as a hospital corpsman. So I end up in boot camp and find out in the third week you can take a screening test to become a Navy SEAL and I'm like, yeah, well, let's try it out.

Tom: I went and I passed and ended up on the Silver Strand starting BUDS, basic underwater demolition SEAL training, on August the 27th, 1979, graduating class 106, February 29th, 1980. And then went to the teens. And here's the thing is at 14, my addiction came with me. I did not find it in the military. I did not find it in college.

Tom: It was part of me. So that wonderful career that started out in 1980 by 1988, 89 I'm being discharged for drug use.

Mike: Wow.

Tom: And my world crashes.

Mike: Well, go backwards. At 14, what were you using? I'm going to assume alcohol.

Tom: Okay, so here's the thing is, I graduated from high school in 1977, Led Zeppelin.

Tom: All that we had was really not very good marijuana, and it was called Crosstop Speed. They were little white pills, and that's all that there was. So it wasn't like you're being overwhelmed with what is out there today, and what brought an end to my career was crystal meth. So that's the story of the beginning at 14, alcohol, marijuana, a few Cross Tops to just literally being a garbage can taking and doing anything that could change the way I was feeling.

Mike: The SEALS training is legendarily difficult.

Tom: Yes. Well, here's the thing is from my perspective, and this is only me saying it is you do not create SEALS, we're born and what it is, those that have the capacity and I'm not the only one. I went to school with really good athletes that I don't doubt could have graduated as I did, but you had to have been given the opportunity.

Tom: Nobody going in at that time was going to go in the military. And then they did not know anything about special forces. So at that point, I'm just following my bliss.

Mike: How did they discover the addiction?

Tom: Okay, so in the beginning, I went into the military under the Carter administration and within the year, it was the Reagan administration.

Tom: During this time, the military was... morale was horrible. There was an incident in the desert with trying to get the hostages in Iran and that was the catalyst that changed. Ronald Reagan saying, okay, we're going zero tolerance and we're going to rebuild the military. And what you see today is that product.

Tom: And so that was in the early days, there was no urinalysis. There was no cutting your hair to look at it. And it came about as I was already in the military, as I was already in the teams. And the thing with it is when it first came out, I was a hospital corpsman. So the command would get the notice that we're going to do a urinalysis.

Tom: They would call me, get the bottles ready. So I knew ahead of time and was able to maneuver and make sure that I and anyone else wasn't going to come up hot. But push that down nine years and now the drug is crystal meth. And the problem with that is. It destroys. I went to sleep and woke up three days later and in the military that's called unauthorized absence and at that point I was not in control of anything that was from that point on and I was given a urinalysis and at this point I came up hot and it was zero tolerance so I was discharged from SEAL Team 1 in 1988.

Mike: Prior to that, in your book, you talk about during the SEALS training, the easiest thing to do is ringing the bell.

Tom: Yeah. So, what is trying to be done is, the class started with 110 individuals. And from that 110, we graduated with actually a rather large class of 55.

Tom: And what it comes down to is in that six month period, there's three phases, first, second, and third. And the easiest thing you can do at any time is in the corner of the compound at basic underwater demolition SEAL training, there's a bell. And if you go and ring it, you take off your helmet, you put it on the ground and you're out of there.

Tom: And that's it that fast. No do overs.

Mike: No questions asked.

Tom: No questions asked. And so, for me, that was the challenge. No matter what you did to me, no matter where you put me, I was not going to quit. And that was how that dynamic of, never giving up comes in because the class made it through, you make it through and that's what we all have in common was that training and that bell.

Mike: Yeah, the reason I bring that up is because that's extremely difficult and then when you get discharged because of the crystal meth, you had to go through a pretty serious period of time of self reflection and disappointment.

Tom: You know what, self reflection came later. I literally was, I am 6'3", 210 pounds.

Tom: When I was discharged, I was 6'3", 165 pounds.

Mike: Wow. Wow.

Tom: It is what happens. I don't care who you are. That drug is going to devastate you. And so from that perspective, as I was discharged, I lost my identity. I lost my sense of self. And it's a scary place when that is what happened because I ended back up in the civilian world, which I had never experienced because I went from high school, college, just beginning to understand the adult world and then into the military, which is a completely different way of living life.

Mike: You got your feet back under you though.

Tom: Yeah, and I went to a recovery facility. It was called Project 90, 90 days and 90 meetings. And the thing with that is it broke the physical addiction, but living life, I was clueless. And at the end of a year, I was at that place where I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to make it.

Tom: I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to not quit using. And so I came up with... In the recovery facility, I'm told, and I would share with anybody that's in the same circumstance, whatever the issues that brought you to that use of drugs has a story back in childhood. And what you need to do is go back there and figure out what it was.

Tom: And for me, I was not able to go and see what was there, nor was I able to feel. Because in the military, they shut off all those emotions and then the drugs on top of it. So the bane of all men is experiencing our emotions. And that was the way it was for me that I was able to do that. I went and took a job as an overnight counselor at an adolescent recovery facility, ages 13 to 17, where I was able to watch youth at the age I was when I began that process.

Tom: And then what I didn't have at that age was that recovery facility. And seeing that in bringing them through the way of changing their attitudes from use to non use, they had to go inside and come to terms with dark secrets that all humans have. And I was watching them do that and I hadn't done it. My program was a 12 step program, fourth and fifth step.

Tom: I was not able to go in and share that darkness because I didn't have the strength. I didn't have the courage. I didn't want to face that. And now I'm looking at a 13, 14 year old doing it and I feel like a coward. And in that I found my way because of the strength and character of those young people and finally found my way into the emotional realm, which is for me, the spiritual realm.

Tom: And I went and did that deep dive to find the darkness from my past.

Mike: And you had the strength to, when you wanted to get to where you wanted to go, you had to go back to school.

Tom: Working with these kids, I lost my purpose and meaning when I was discharged and found it working with youth and not only found it, but found that I had a talent and an ability because young people responded to me.

Tom: So I am highly educated military, but that education has no civilian counterpart. So at that stage, I didn't want to go back to school because I didn't feel as though I needed to because there was still a lack of humility in me. Long story short is I got past myself. I saw that what was happening with youth where they were coming to me and sharing things with me and I didn't have answers and that was unacceptable.

Tom: And because of that, I returned Bachelor's, Master's, Licensed Board Certification, and now 35 years of experience with young people and all people across the board.

Mike: And you talk in your book, I think rather eloquently, about the society we live in right now being divided into the me's and the we's.

Tom: Actually it's the haves and the have nots that are representing themselves right now. And I don't think that the country is aware of what's going to come on Monday, but the fact of the matter is i'm doing this and I wrote that book so that I could get into the public eye so that I could do one thing and that it is to let our youth know that I seek to be an advocate for them and I am not asking them to trust me because I found that trust was the one thing that you had to have if you're going to work with youth.

Mike: Yes.

Tom: And all that I'm saying is, I'm not asking you to trust me. I'm asking for the opportunity to earn your trust. And on and on I come, and right now sitting with you, able to share this story and let them see me and know me. Because on Monday, everybody's gonna wake up to a brand new world.

Mike: Yeah, we're recording this just before the inauguration, by the way.

Mike: What does trust look like to an adolescent?

Tom: Every time you say you're going to do something, let's move up. I'm in the Boys and Girls Club. I'm a unit director. The Boys and Girls Club has six core areas. There's nature, there's education, there's athletics, there's leadership, there's all these things.

Tom: I am running that, and during the summer we have field trips, and so if you tell a young person that, yes, tomorrow at eight o'clock I'm going to be here, and in this form was, I opened that club during the summer at eight o'clock in the morning and stayed open until eight o'clock at night. And they saw that every time I said I was going to do something, I did it.

Tom: There is the trust. You can't say trust me. Those are just words. As am I sitting here over and over saying to you that I'm looking to earn your trust over time, proving to you that my word is my bond and that I am trustworthy. And if we can get to that place, then we have a chance.

Mike: Over my career, Tom, you and I have done very much the same stuff. It has always been one of my irritants that I'm going to get a little soapboxy here. When workers, people who work with youth cancel meetings, don't follow through on what they say they're going to do. They're certainly used to that in the court system.

Mike: And as you just said, they're coming, the kids we're talking about, are coming to you and us having a lifetime of adults not follow through so that they got a built in not trust. So it's essential, right? 8am means I'm there. The door's open.

Tom: Absolutely. And you hit it on the head because that's the key element that you are what you say you are in the eyes of youth.

Tom: And because I had established that... When in recovery, we have to relearn how to do everything. And one of those things is being healthy and joyful with experiences. Say, you know, walks or working out and all of those things what we would call playing. Now, how an adult plays is not the same as how a kid plays.

Tom: And if you're working with kids or youth and you want to play with them, you have to play like they play. And that was what I learned from them was how to play like a kid. And because of it, there was the beginning of the bond that allowed for the conversations. What's an example of that? I had trees on the property of the Boys and Girls Club, and you'd see kids trying to get up and climb the trees.

Tom: And I'd go up and climb the tree with them.

Mike: (laugh)

Tom: They got this adult supposedly, you know, mature and he's climbing actually to the very top and. You know what? You set the example, again, not by what you tell youth, it's by what you are in your actions with them.

Mike: Yeah, I'm laughing because I've told this story I think once before on here, but I got called on the carpet at a treatment center I worked with for during a drought, we had a rainstorm.

Mike: Not just allowing the kids to go outside in the rain. But going out with them and we had a blast and it was probably one of the most therapeutic things and I got chewed out for it, but I would do it again and again and again. You use a term in your book I'm gonna borrow by the way, because I love it. Called yourself a clinical troubleshooter, that's a great term.

Mike: What does that mean to you

Tom: As it stands right now. I am at the end of my career. I just turned 65. I've been in this world of recovery and actually not recovery, but the clinical. And from where I sit, I went to get all that knowledge because, again, a youth comes up and has in that moment, a devastating circumstance, and they're coming to you for help and not having an answer.

Tom: That was the driving factor. And so at this stage, I have immersed myself in understanding everything that it is that is necessary, not for youth, but for all humanity, when I do what I do.

Mike: Yeah.

Tom: At this stage I no longer go to a brick and mortar place. I am in my home, in the back room, doing these interviews and I have got it down to, I work two days a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Tom: I do clinical and then Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Wednesday, I play. And in that, it is, right now, my ability to give back and have the time, and most importantly, have the knowledge up here from all those experiences that I can be profoundly effective because as we speak what happens Monday, it's the the adult world that I'm not concerned about.

Tom: I'm concerned about our youth and the reason is because youth don't listen to what we say. They watch us for what we do and they have been watching for the last year a nation that will not talk with one another, that is fearful and angry, and is going to manifest on Monday in ways that truly are going to devastate the adult population, and our youth are looking for us for answers, and they're seeing us be insane.

Mike: Yeah.

Tom: So, my grounding at this part is to be available to them starting Monday.

Mike: And you're also giving back. Talk about the Honor Bound Academy.

Tom: So I looked at, and the book is written from the perspective of adolescent to adulthood. At the very bottom is, you know, adolescent to adulthood, we all have that transition.

Tom: And I told the story of the generation that was the greatest, generation that is silent, boomer, and all those other generations. And what I had in my youth that was in the form of a rite of passage, I came to understand watching and working with youth that no longer exists. And that is the creation in that book of having a program that's called Honor Bound Academy that explains in a one year program how to instill all the lessons that they're missing right now.

Tom: And the reason that it's in the book, is for the last 10 years I've attempted to get funding and was unable to and was not willing to not have that body of knowledge and information just go to naught. So my idea is I'll write a book, tell the story, my story, our story, youth story over generations, and then put it at the end with somebody perhaps in the future finding it and having the wherewithal financially to be able to bring it on or somebody right now saying, I'll fund that.

Mike: We fund a lot of stuff.

Tom: Yeah.

Mike: And you know as you lay out the program, that kind of structured program that transitions somebody from childhood to young, through adolescence, to young adulthood. If you complete a program like that, the statistics are unbelievably undeniable.

Mike: You have a great success rate moving forward if you don't ring the bell.

Tom: And so the thing with it is, is I'm not looking to create little special forces people, you know, I built this thing for every kid, the kid that's overweight and sits in the corner all by himself. To the one that can't sit still.

Tom: And understand this to that it's created that I'm seeking funding so nobody has to pay to experience it. I don't believe you need to pay for this. This is something that we're supposed to give you. And so understanding that perspective is at this point with the program having not been able to run actually to prove, you know, merit that it works.

Tom: In it, I have to give you the dignity and the character and the choice to quit if you want. Now I'm going to make that very difficult on you because I'm not going to give up on you, but at some point there are some folks that their path is going to take them to places that we see that we would rather they not go, but that is their life destiny.

Tom: That's what they're meant to do. So at that point, I will ask you to leave or I will show you the door with an understanding of giving you the information on an exit plan to but to say that nobody quits. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I need you to be happy. I need you to have that as a choice and I will respect it if you so choose to quit.

Mike: Yeah. Since you work with kids all the time and have, we're experiencing a mental health crisis among adolescents now that we literally have not, we haven't seen. And so what I liked about your laying out the program was you take time saying, look, we're going to address some of these, how to take care of yourself, how to problem solve, how to deal with your emotions, how to cope with those things.

Mike: Cause Tom, we're not seeing those modeled in our society anymore.

Tom: Exactly. So I've got a couple of young people that I'm seeing right now on those Tuesdays and Thursdays. They're in their mid 20s. And what I'm seeking in Honor Bound Academy is to incorporate an internal nexus, a stability and a belief system within you that you put there and that you trust.

Tom: And if that's not there, as it is with a couple of the folks I'm dealing with right now, I am at a loss as to how to help. All that it is is, what happens with that type of individual, they find themselves so frustrated that everything is somebody else's fault. And they want to, in my interaction with them, have me tell them, you're not worth it. I can't help you. I'm not going to deal with this. I know that's what they're doing. And so what I do is I'm never going to give up. I'm saying, look, I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to do with you. But next week at this time, I'm going to call you again and try again, because I'm not going to give up on you.

Tom: And in that, that's a stabilizing factor. I still don't know what the answer is, but they will answer the phone next week. And as long as I can keep inserting over and over, no matter what they say, I give you a suggestion, you give me an excuse. You know what? That's okay. I'll do that until we're blue in the face.

Tom: So bring it.

Mike: I don't think and I bet you agree with this. I don't think we sacrifice our masculinity moving forward by being able to cope with our own emotions or express them for that matter. But we're seeing a swing back in that direction. You and I grew up in the suck it up, be a man generation, which was, you know, bury your feelings. Not very productive in relationships.

Tom: You want to cry, I'll give you something to cry about.

Mike: (laugh) God, how many times we heard that, right? Rub some dirt on it, Tom. (laugh)

Tom: And this right now is a whole generation and more than a generation. You know, we've got Y and Z. Y is 30s. Z is 20. And the alphas are coming now. They are in high school and middle school and elementary school and they're missing out on... Again, I will say it over and over again. I have never successfully spoken to someone and gave them an answer to their problem. I have always gone into the individual and found the answer within them that they can't find, and we bring it up and out, and then, because we've worked it there, I ask them, is this who you are?

Tom: Is this real? And if the answer is yes, then we can move forward, because they said, I brought that there, I acknowledge that, I believe in it, internal nexus. Life will throw you for a loop, but you know what? You learn to handle it now, and you can use this for every time here on out. What are we going to do with a generation between birth and 29 right now that are flailing?

Tom: And nobody is talking and nobody is going to say, I'll stand up and I'll help. I will volunteer. And so if no one else is going to do it, I will.

Mike: What is your, if you flash forward, what's your ideal outcome for young men in our society? Where do you see them going? And I'll give you a go away after that.

Tom: To be perfectly honest with you, I really don't know what's coming. And so I have to adapt to what I see and experience to know what direction we're going to take. And my military career and my professional career have put me in a position to be able to not have the answer and know in the moment that I can find something and we'll make it work.

Tom: And right now, all that I can say is, to a generation of youth, no matter where it takes us, no matter where we go, I'm going to be there with you.

Mike: Outstanding.

Mike: Do you think we can change the Me to the We?,

Mike: Can we bridge that gap that is so wide right now?

Tom: Yes. So Margaret Mead years ago said, don't ever underestimate the small group of individuals who are dedicated to changing the societal norms and do not underestimate them. I don't need an army. I just need a group of individuals who are willing to give everything and in showing our youth that we will do that for them, then yeah, I believe that there are circumstances that can change for the betterment for many individuals.

Mike: I do too, Tom. You know, happiness is so much of a better model for living your life than disease, right? And optimism is so much better than the opposite. The book is Special Welfare Social Welfare, and what I like about the last part where we talked about the Honor Bound Academy is it's a really nice guide for am I doing this with my own kids?

Mike: Am I doing this with the people that I know working with?

Mike: Tom, thanks so much for your time and your efforts over the career and for being willing to share your story. Appreciate it.

Tom: Yeah, and to have a you know, a like individual that we've, you know, we're out here, Michael.

Mike: Yeah, we are.

Tom: We are here.

Tom: Now, if I could just share I have a website. TheHonorBoundAcademy.org TheHonorBoundAcademy.org will take you to my website where you'll see everything that I am, including all the various types of social media platforms and everything that I am and everything that I espouse, including on a regular basis submitting more information in the form of stories.

Tom: You can find me and it at thehonorboundacademy.org and I appreciate you for giving me this opportunity.

Mike: Hey, it's great. I appreciate you. And those of you who listen regularly know that there are links on the blurb for Tom's book, his socials for the Honor Bound Academy. Please go to them.

Mike: For those of you listening and watching I hope you find hope wherever you are listening.

Mike: Be safe. And keep moving forward, regardless of what Monday brings.