How K-Dramas Can Transform Your Life

[Jaunty Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome, everybody. This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction, brought to you by Westwords Consulting and the Kenosha County Substance Abuse Coalition. I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: Different cultures deal with mental health in different ways. In traditional America, escapism and stress relief take many forms, from Sunday football to video games, from walks in the park to sadly sitting on a bar stool.

Mike: Today, we're going to talk about Korean culture, how it's spread to the world, and more specifically, K-Dramas as a mental health tool. My guest is Jeanie Y. Chang, a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified clinical trauma professional and author of the delightful new book, How K Dramas Can Transform Your Life, Powerful Lessons in Belongingness, Healing, and Mental Health.

Mike: Jeanie is an accomplished international speaker providing keynotes and workshops for corporations, community organizations, universities, addressing the intersectionality of mental health and identity. Everything from diversity, equity, inclusion, and psychological safety, as well as education about topics such as burnout, resilience, mindfulness, stress, mental health conditions, including anxiety and depression.

Mike: Jeanie is also the founder and CEO of Noona’s Noonchi, a global wellness company created out of her global social media influence as Noona’s Noonchi, using her experience as a clinician, speaker, and coach to deep dive into K-Dramas from a mental health perspective. Welcome Jeanie.

Jeanie: Thank you for having me.

Jeanie: It's always uncomfortable. (laugh)

Mike: I know. Yeah, I totally agree with that. Whenever I'm introduced giving a talk and they read the bio, I just cringe.

Jeanie: Sometimes it's nice to hear. I'm like, Oh, I've done a lot.

Mike: Yeah. Well, I'm going to actually ask you about that in a little while. But for those listening and that's probably quite a few people who haven't seen or aren't familiar with K-Dramas.

Mike: Well, what are they?

Jeanie: Sure. Korean dramas, basically Korean language. TV shows that you are now seeing on every, I would say every OTT platform out there, Netflix, Disney plus Amazon prime. And they are not soap operas, pause on that, but they're, I would say episodic shows of 16 to 20, sometimes even 12 episodes.

Jeanie: So there's short, there's generally one season. And I would say it's an overall flowing story of protagonists, antagonists, everything, and the tropes all in between. But again, what I would say about is also they tend to be rated PG. So very family oriented dramas. And if you probably have seen them pop up, but that's, I would say that the nutshell description of a Korean drama or K-Dramas fondly known.

Mike: Well, and the one that people are familiar with, but they're more than just Squid Game.

Jeanie: Yes, of course people and I'm thankful to Squid Game because it did put K-Dramas on the map. It is a type of K-Drama, but a little bit out of the norm. It was made exclusively for Netflix so the rating is a little different.

Jeanie: It is not PG rated and in some sense it was very graphic. But very well done if you got a glimpse of Korean storytelling and even the development of the characters of Squid Game was also very well done. But again, not, I would say, the normal genre of a K-Drama. But yes, Squid Game is a K-Drama. And it put K-Dramas on the map.

Mike: Yeah, and I've heard people say that they're addictive, but in a good way.

Jeanie: And you know what, let's talk about addiction. Addiction is still, overall, not good. So I love how they say addictive in a good way. I go, Well, let's rephrase that. Maybe you're just really, really enjoying it because I don't want you to be binging all the time.

Jeanie: I'm very clear about that. I go, yes, I talk about K-Dramas and they're good for mental health, but there is that boundary of too much and too much might be when you say I'm totally addicted, I'm not doing half my work. I'm like, then let's pause there. Not good. Right. But yeah, they're addictive in the sense they're, they're fun to watch.

Jeanie: You like binging or you keep wanting to watch the next episode because they do cliff hanger those episodes on purpose. And in that sense, that would be, you know, what they mean by addictive, but nothing should be it being saying addiction or addictiveness is not good. Right. Because it means you're doing too much of something and you need it.

Mike: Let's talk about that for a minute. Because I, I'm not, I'm older than you. Yeah, I'm not of that generation that binges. I don't binge. And I don't understand binging. It seemed when I hear people, oh, I watched the entire first two seasons of Breaking Bad over the weekend. I'm like,

Mike: What the hell else did you do?

Jeanie: Yeah. Yeah. You're right. The generation. So I'm Gen X. So I'm in between, I could binge, but generally speaking, the younger folks, right. When we're saying Gen Z and millennials, which I do clarify them by that way, because I work with a lot of different generations. They're used to the, you know, the streaming platforms.

Jeanie: We didn't have that growing up. Right, Mike? I didn't.

Mike: Right.

Jeanie: That's why we have a little bit more self control. We had to wait for an episode every week. So we're used to that where the younger folks are not used to that. And they're used to these platforms where it's instant, like, okay, next episode. Okay.

Jeanie: And so I think the binging is sometimes okay. Because that's escapism. Sometimes you want to watch three, four episodes, which is like four hours. And I think that's okay if you have some time, but overall we do need to balance how much we're watching because binging means exactly that.

Jeanie: You're binging. You're doing too much of it. You're like ingesting all this content in one sitting, which means you're not doing something else, right? And so that could be the danger of all these streaming platforms. And when I hear people sleep deprived, like clients, I'm like, I don't want that either. You're not supposed to be sleep deprived.

Jeanie: Like, maybe one night, okay, but don't keep telling me you're sleep deprived because you had to watch this K-Drama the night before. Then I would say, let's put a little stop on that. Right? So again, binging is still not what I endorse. And when I say the book is not about binging.

Mike: No. And there's also that, when I read a book that's really interesting, or watch a movie, I want it to slow down towards the end because I don't want to finish it.

Mike: So the idea of getting through something is not the goal, it's to sit on it and feel it and enjoy it.

Jeanie: And K-Dramas do let you do that because you can sit in one episode and just feel all these emotions.

Mike: Yeah.

Jeanie: I'll say one thing about the binging, some folks have told me this, K-Dramas, there's so much content out there, which I agree with, even I'm like, Oh my God, there's a new K-Drama every week.

Jeanie: So I think that sometimes that need of like, I gotta watch this, I gotta watch this, I gotta watch this, and I don't blame them because there's so much great content. Because K-Dramas also, there's a lot of different kinds, you don't have these long 16 seasons, you have one season, and so that's probably another reason why for that binging, folks have told me, I want to see it all, Jeanie, because these are folks who are very, very enthusiasts of K-Dramas, and I'm like, I don't blame you, but please, moderation, moderation, right?

Jeanie: I always emphasize that as a therapist.

Mike: Well, you mentioned in your first remarks that they're, PG, they're not nearly as overtly sexual as some of what we see on traditional American TV, yet there's a lot there. Well, depending on which one you watch, there's romance involved and the implication is plenty.

Jeanie: Let me tell you, I think because there's, here's the word that, that K-Drama viewers will say as they're watching the romance. I want to say almost every K-Drama has a romantic storyline. Sometimes it's the actual main storyline, sometimes it's not. But that is one of the tropes or the storytelling aspects of K-Dramas that make them so appealing.

Jeanie: They're romantic, but the romance is not so much visual. You can feel the yearning and people don't know that yearning. Like, are they going to hold hands? Are they going to kiss over that? Well, that's literally what we say. That's the anticipation and the fun of watching. Going, okay I can't wait for episode eight.

Jeanie: I think they might kiss this time. We all make fun of it and to think that they'll actually kiss, but that is the K-Drama. They tend to be more conservative. It's also the culture and how much they want to show. This is on network and cable television in Korea. So they have to watch what they show.

Jeanie: Actually, it can't be that graphic, if that makes sense. Right? So that's part of the practicality of it, but folks love it because it is different than Western television where maybe in the first scene is very sexually explicit. And by the way, that's another reason why I say that they're good for mental health, K-Dramas, because they're comforting on the eyes.

Jeanie: You watch it and you know you'll be comfortable going, okay, I'm not going to see this graphic scene right away. I have to imagine it. It's visual. You know, you have to put it in your head. And that's another great aspect of K-Dramas.

Mike: Well, when my kids were younger and their grandma was interested, I think it was in Days of Our Lives and they asked me, what is that?

Mike: I described soap operas, American soap operas to my kids as shows where no one ever smiles. And that's (laugh), well, that's, and, but that's not true with the K-Dramas. There's humor, there's art, fashion. Oh, they're so beautiful. I want to live in that world for a minute or two, right? And very loyal friendships and relationships as well.

Jeanie: Yes. And so and not to like insult the soap operas. I always make clear Korean dramas are not soap operas. They focus on character, character development, the emotions surrounding the characters. It's not so much about the plot. So if you watch a K-Drama, the plot is part of the story, but it is not the story.

Jeanie: The story are the people. That is why they're so full of that art and humor and joy and sadness and trauma and all the emotions that we see that mimic real life universal themes. So, I want to say the depth of a K-Drama and the storytelling is because they focus on the people, people are drawn to that.

Jeanie: People are drawn to people. We want to see people's expressions, people's you know reactions to what's going on in their lives. Not so much the plot. Again, the plot is interesting, but that is not what keep people watching. They're invested in the two people that are falling in love or two people that are going through a crisis. They're like, you know, I relate to that. That was me at one point, or I relate to the joy and happiness. And so that's all emotions are universal. That's why I say they, I tie them to mental health. We all feel, even though you think you don't feel, we all feel, and we have to feel, honestly, to survive.

Jeanie: That is actually the belongingness of feeling like, Oh, I get them. I see the story. It's not me. But I get their emotion and why they're angry, or why they're happy, or why they're sad, or why they're sorrowful. So, that is the magic of K-Drama.

Mike: And talk about that then, that's your book, right? So, how does that help, watching that, how does that help stress, anxiety, your mental health?

Jeanie: I think the best thing that it does, our mental health just simply put to define it is your emotional well being, your social well being and your psychological well being, your brain, the health of your mind. And it's mental health is health. Mental health is an every day, every moment thing. I'm not talking mental illness.

Jeanie: Which is a completely different thing, but mental health when you're watching a show like a K-Drama you are able to express emotions whether it's in the privacy of your own home in Netflix in bed. Whatever your how you're watching watching it or with other people if you're watching with family members openly. In real life there are times when we have to hold our emotions, actually many of times we're holding emotions like anger, anxiety, stress because we're in a public setting, we're at work, we're in front of family, you're holding your emotions much more than you know, but when you watch that K-Drama and you see somebody crying or you see some villain doing something you're like, oh, that makes me so mad.

Jeanie: To feel those emotions are very important. I will always say, feel your emotions they're valid, they're real. It's okay to be angry. It's okay to be sad. It's okay to be happy, be joyful, be sorrowful. However, what you do in those emotions is what I get. Right. I don't want you to throw a chair or punch somebody, which we see on screen, but guess what?

Jeanie: You see that on screen and you're like, yes, that's what I would want to do. I can't do it in real life, but that feels good that I see this protagonist, you know, hitting this villain. Cause that's what I would do in real life. All of that is the process we call externalization, where you're seeing something that's not yours, apart from you. It's not about you, but then you're able to, because it's not about you, you're able to process it separately and then realize what you're experiencing. Whatever you're experiencing is real and valid. Can I give an example? For instance, someone's watching something and they're seeing this story and they're like, Jeanie, I'm just seeing something that has nothing to do with me.

Jeanie: Somebody happy go lucky with their family. And they're having this great conversation with their mom. And then all of a sudden this person told me, I feel this wave of grief. And I'm like, Oh, what's that? What, what's the grief about this person then starts crying, going, I realized I missed my mom. So she saw this, a beautiful story of a mother and daughter, and it was a great conversation.

Jeanie: It was happy, it was a happy scene, but she felt sad watching it because it reminded her of the mother that she lost. And then you can have vice versa, you see something sad on screen going, You know what? I realized something. I feel like I have these great relationships on, you know, in my real life that I'm not showing how much I love my loved ones because I'm seeing something sad on screen.

Jeanie: So you don't have to mimic the emotions. You just realize different things about yourself from watching these emotions. That's a big part of mental health. Emotions and understanding them and every day we don't get to talk about them, but in a K-Drama, you can process them in your own home or on screen or with people.

Mike: Do you find that it's easier for people to then talk about their own stuff after watching it somewhere else, rather than the traditional therapeutic model, right? Which is like, what's going on with you? How do you feel? They can transfer what they've seen to their own life does that help?

Jeanie: You know, when you're going through something really hard, I mean, this is coming from me, a trauma expert, that when you're going through something like a trauma, you actually can't process it.

Jeanie: You're going through it. And you're just trying to survive. It's afterwards. But when you watch that drama and maybe you're seeing somebody going through something horrific or even something happy, it doesn't matter. They're like, Oh my gosh, I'm just crying. I'm feeling angry. I'm letting myself feel what I'm experiencing.

Jeanie: That's part of the process. That's the word I like to use in therapy. Sometimes it's hard for a person to be asked, how are you doing? You're going through a lot. It's hard for me to explain. Then they see a story. They're like, you know what? Now I can explain. You know what I'm going through, I'm mad. And so I think any kind of story, it's not just K-Dramas, but K-Dramas, again, focus on people.

Jeanie: So it's really good to get all that out through a K-Drama, but many stories can tell you something about yourself that you don't realize because it's really hard to process in real time. So that's, it's very hard. I'll ask people, how are you? You know, that question, how are you doing? Fine. That's why we say, fine, we, it's hard to answer that, right?

Jeanie: And so that's part of why in real life, it's hard for us to answer something like that. But when you realize from watching a story, that process of externalization, you are able to go, this is not about me, but I just realized what I'm going through because it wasn't about me.

Mike: Jeanie, you just made, I think an exceptional point that we don't talk about nearly enough.

Mike: And I was just thinking, I need to do a whole talk on this, which is in the moment. When trauma occurs, we just deal with it and we always deal with it pretty well. But after the fact is when it hits us and that's when nobody's checking in. Nobody calls two months after a death and says, how are you doing?

Mike: They bring the potluck dinner two days after the death and you don't even remember where you put it in the freezer, right?

Jeanie: Right. That is actually how trauma works. That's actually talk a lot about it's not during the trauma. In fact, you're okay during the trauma, you're surviving. You're like, I got this.

Jeanie: The adrenaline is on high. The minute things calm down and you're able to process, that is when all hell breaks loose. Sorry to use that term, but that's when you're like, Oh my God, what did I just go through? I don't have this person anymore. I just survived cancer. That is the hard work. And that is actually what K-Dramas can help you through.

Jeanie: Some people have told me they didn't know they were actually grieving until two years or three years when they saw their first K-Drama. And then they said the damn burst like no tomorrow. And they went, oh my God, Jeanie, I thought I was fine with my husband's death. No, I wasn't fine. And so that's, that's good.

Jeanie: I mean, that's in some sense realizing because your body cannot take all that suppression. Do you know that you can actually get physically ill, holding in all of that, repressing your thoughts, suppressing your emotions. It's we're not, we're not robots. So human beings need to feel and need to express and how you do it is up to you, but K-Dramas can help you do that.

Mike: Do you think there's a downside that it's filmed so beautifully and you know, the, it's almost Hallmark-y and you know, you know, what's coming up, right? That it's actually, Oh, I wish my life were like that. So can it have the inverse effect?

Jeanie: Of course. And in fact like I will be even like, Oh, this is the way we should do this in our family, right?

Jeanie: You watch something. I think overall, it's still a drama. I always say this K-Drama, Korean drama. So think of why we're watching. Cause we also want to be entertained. We're not going to watch something humdrum. That's like our life, like a documentary. Why would we watch it then? We want to watch something that's thrilling, exciting, and you know, beautiful looking.

Jeanie: And I think those aesthetics are great. But yes, we need to temper it with our real life. Don't watch a K-Drama. I always say this, do not watch K-Dramas to escape your life. Then we have a problem. I ask you to watch K-Dramas as enjoyment, as part of escapism, which is what escapism means, like a little bit of a break from your daily life.

Jeanie: But you go back to that life stronger than ever. Does that make sense? So I don't say watch a K-Drama, escape your life. No, watch a K-Drama to escape your stressors, escape the momentary conflict you have, and then go back to it going, okay, I gotta go back to my conflict. I had a break. So that is what I always say to folks.

Jeanie: And there are folks I've said, you know what, you have a little break from reality. I need you to stop watching. I've actually said that to people going you just asked me a question that concerns me. So you're in K-Drama land. And so I love it that you love K-Dramas that much, but I need you to take a break.

Jeanie: And so then there'll be like, what? And then people go, you're right. Let me snap back to reality. Of course they need to hear that, but it's still a show. I say this, it's still a show, it's still actors that we adore, but they're still characters that they're playing. So I always remind people that that's the bottom line, you know, as a therapist, please, let's not have a break from reality.

Mike: You're obviously so much well-versed. And they're so diverse, do you have specific shows that you tell clients, tune into this one so that you can talk about.

Jeanie: You know, there's so many and and you know, do you, do you know that some people say, well, What's one on grief? I go, why do you want one on grief?

Jeanie: They're like, because I feel like I'm grieving. I go, do you know that I actually don't want you to watch something on grief really? Like, just because it's about grief doesn't mean it'll help you. In fact, some of the opposite will help you. The ones that are rom coms and joyful, right? So overall, like my favorite, like fun rom coms or the ones that are show like the family orientated sorry, oriented dramas would be Hometown Cha Cha Cha.

Jeanie: That's a 2021 K-Drama on Netflix. It's easy to watch. It's about a seaside village and and basically the characters in it, but there's real life things. There's some trauma and healing and then there's conflict, but then there's joy and overall it's a happy drama. So I recommend that as an easy watch. Crash Landing On You went global in 2020.

Jeanie: That is also a very well done drama, but it's not my go to, but yes, I would say it's up there. But then if you want some intrigue and some action, Vincenzo, you know, Vincenzo has some, you know, Vincenzo has some killing. It's a mafia conciliator who's the lead, but very well done. Very good story.

Jeanie: Because there's also he, you see him changing as like a, he's actually a good person at heart, but. Doesn't show it in the beginning and then he falls in love with the community that he's around I love shows like that that show him with a community that cares that grows to care for him even as a mafia conciliary guys like that one And then lastly a historical drama.

Jeanie: Mr. Sunshine is my top five. Highly recommended. It's basically, an oscar winning movie in 24 episodes. So 24 hours of watching but really well done shows actually the Japanese occupation of Korea. So it's historical fiction. But if you want to see something back in the early 1900s, what Korea was really like, and then seeing a beautiful love story, and then complex characters come into play in historical fiction drama, it's very well done.

Jeanie: I mean, it's epic. It won like best drama. Some of these that I'm recommending won best drama. And then I forgot one more. Of course, my ultimate favorite, My Mister.

Mike: Yes.

Jeanie: My Mister, also on Netflix. My Mister is how I wrote the book. I envisioned that drama going transformation, and that was the drama that I based it on because I saw transformation between two characters, and I believe that happens in real life.

Jeanie: People say transformation as in Jeanie Chang with this new hairstyle. That's one version of transformation. But the transformation I'm talking about is within. Where you feel different, you have a new perspective on life and you feel healed. And so we all need some sort of healing.

Jeanie: So those are like my recommendations that I always say, Hey, these are my go to. But there's so many.

Mike: And for people listening, you just got five of them to go to and there's so many more. You go to YouTube and people are making lists, you know, the 15 romantic ones you need to watch and whatever. But I should have said this right off the bat.

Mike: Even though after Squid Game people were learning Korean, you don't have to know Korean to enjoy these and I think this is why it's going worldwide.

Jeanie: Exactly. Yeah. In fact, you know, Koreans will say, Jeanie, what's the appeal with Korean dramas? Our Korean dramas, half the people watching them around the world aren't even Korean.

Jeanie: I go correct. Because what they show are universal themes, messages, emotions. Yeah. Family drama, family trauma, you know, people going through a crisis. These are all universal. So of course they relate to that. They just, it just happens to be in the form of K-Dramas, which is excellent storytelling writing.

Jeanie: So I do know that people have learned Korean through it, but no, you have subtitles. Some are dubbed and I don't even care how you watch it because it doesn't matter, but they will tell me they watch both subtitles and dubbed because they need the dubbed because they can't read the titles as fast, but then they love reading the subtitles.

Jeanie: So we still have subtitles. You can read them and then you have people picking up the language, which is kind of cool, too. (chuckle)

Mike: Yeah, I read a study where people enjoy watching old reruns of shows they know very, very well from their youth because it gives them a sense of predictability and contentment.

Mike: And I think in this time of divisiveness around the world that has to be therapeutic.

Jeanie: Very therapeutic. Okay, so if we're talking K-Dramas, they're very predictable. In fact, that could be the complaint. People are like, Oh, there goes another trope. I go, Oh, you say that, but then you freak out when it doesn't end happily, which is a K-Drama trope.

Jeanie: They're like, good point. So, you know that a trauma prevention tool technique is predictability. So, the fact that we know in episode 8, a kiss might happen, episode 16, the finale, they're gonna get together, that actually is very comforting whether we know it or not. And sometimes we don't know it, and that's fine, and people still complain about the tropes.

Jeanie: But we need those tropes for that comfort level of everything else in the world. We can at least control what we're watching and we watch a K-Drama, you'll know what to expect. And I think that's really important actually. And the more and more that we in this, in this world, if there's so much upheaval, That's why K-Dramas were appealing.

Jeanie: That's why in 2020, it tripled the viewership of K-Dramas. They were looking for something different and it came in the form of K-Dramas which were predictable, comforting, rated PG generally speaking, and short lived, 16 episodes. And then you can move on to something else.

Mike: Yeah, I do like that aspect of it a lot.

Mike: You know, Jeanie what have we talked about? Families, love, striving for success, romance, overcoming obstacles, all of the themes. I'll let you go with this question, okay.

Mike: You're a therapist, you're a speaker, you're an author, you have a social media presence, you have to be incredibly busy. Yet on your own platform, you are incredibly upbeat and every time I've seen you interviewed, you're incredibly upbeat.

Mike: So I have to ask you, besides what we've talked about, how else do you balance your own stress and maintain your positive outlook? Because it's just, it's so engaging.

Jeanie: I work hard at it. Because do human nature will go to every problem under the sun. We'll be negative all we want.

Mike: Yes!

Jeanie: Yes, of course I'm negative. But then I'm like, this is making me feel good.

Jeanie: And then it's like, wait a second. I enjoy watching K-Dramas. I live true to that. There are times when I'm like, Oh my goodness, I'm dropping everything. I don't need to write this thing right now. I'm watching an episode. And then I have that break. And then I'm able to go back a little bit more renewed. So that's the number one thing.

Jeanie: I do watch K-Dramas for my self care. I think that's why people believe in what I say, (chuckle) because I do it for myself. And then number two is I have a family. I do prioritize that. Outside of this interview, I'll go back to being mom, you know, mom of four kids all over the place. My son will graduate in a few days from college.

Jeanie: I actually focus on that a lot more than people see. They just see me in reels, but behind the scenes, they'll see me going, okay, so what are we doing for this kid? What's going on here? That grounds me because we need that community in real life. At the end of the day, the reason why I say belongingness, K-Drama watching, you find K-Drama friends.

Jeanie: In real life we need to make sure we stay within our support system, whoever that is. It may change. It may not be the family. It may not be your friends. It may not be your colleagues. You got to figure out who that is, but you cannot be isolated. So actually the more busy I get, the more I stay rooted in like people. I'm like, all right, I've been doing too many reels. I'm talking to the camera too much. Where are my people? So I know that about myself as a true extrovert, but even as introverts, you need people. So I always say, hey introverts, you need to work harder actually to meet those people, to make friends, to stay connected. We are connective creatures. That's what helps save us actually.

Mike: Wow, that's a great takeaway. This has been so fun. You know, people have heard me say this before, we're asked to keep these to a half an hour. There are times where I wish it could go four, right? Or, or maybe we could do 16 episodes at one hour apiece.

Jeanie: (laugh)

Mike: For those of you who are listening, if you're able to, listen in next time.

Mike: Until next time, stay safe. And if you have to choose, choose K-Drama over real drama. It can't hurt.