Irish Roots

[Upbeat Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome everybody. This is Avoiding The Addiction Affliction, sponsored by Westwords Consulting. I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: A few months ago, I had a conversation with Mimi Tallo, author of a fabulous book, Raised by Wolves Trapped by Demons. And Mimi we've had a ton of positive feedback about that.

Mimi: Really?

Mike: Oh, yeah. Your book and that broadcast. We ended up that conversation with a bit of a cliffhanger for a podcast. That I promised we'd pick back up on eventually, and we will today. Mimi grew up in a small town well Scranton, Pennsylvania, not small, but a northeastern blue collar town. She was surrounded by dysfunction, abuse, addiction, and we talked the last time, and I'll put a link to that in the podcast.

Mike: Of her struggle to make something of her life, and she did while battling the demons that seemed to pop up around every corner. Mimi's a speaker, author, and as she describes herself, a podcast maven. Welcome back Mimi.

Mimi: Okay.

Mike: Now, Mimi, we ended the conversation last time after talking about the whole, your life and your family.

Mike: By observing that both of us had Irish roots.

Mimi: Yes, we did.

Mike: And you dug deep, deep into your genealogy and wrote a book about it called Irish Roots. Yes I did. Now, your dad, and this is where I wanna start, your dad didn't think he was Irish.

Mimi: He was adopted. He knew his mother was Irish because he had the adoption papers that said who his mother was.

Mimi: So he hated the Irish because his mother put him in an orphanage, of course, but he thought he was only part Irish. His father that adopted him lied and told him he was his real father. Not adopted, real blood and that he was Sicilian.

Mike: (laughs) Okay. You know, the reason I like this is both of them, if you think Irish and Sicilian.

Mike: Immediately things come to mind with both, right? Both genealogies. Now, your dad, your dad, as you talked about last time, had a substance abuse problem. How much of his identity besides that, how much of his identity was formed thinking his ancestors were Sicilian rather than Irish?

Mimi: Complete.

Mimi: He was, he completely convinced himself that he was Sicilian. He learned how to speak the language at a very young age.

Mike: My.

Mimi: And yeah, he was very smart man. He went to Sicily. He went to the town where his father was born, Rivera. And he found relatives that had the same last name who he thought were his cousins.

Mimi: And he had a fabulous time there. And they ended up sending, one of their kids to visit us. Okay? So he was convinced. Convinced he was Sicilian. In fact, he went twice. He went over there twice to visit. And his cousin, his one cousin, he thought came here and this was really something. Our newspaper The Scranton Times had a big story with pictures and everything about how my father found his relatives in Sicily.

Mike: (laughs) This is great.

Mimi: And I had the chart made up because this cousin was not a genealogist. He was more than that. He went back farther. He did, I can't think of the term for it. He had a big chart that he brought from Sicily, and he went back hundreds of years. He went back to Julius Caesar.

Mike: Oh my Lord!

Mimi: And so that's why we have the newspaper article.

Mimi: And he said that my father's family. The Sicilian family that really wasn't the family was actually back in Julius Caesar's time had a Roman, they called them secretaries for Julius Caesar, one of Julius Caesar's secretaries. They're the guys to take the the note and run to the next camp with it.

Mike: Wow!

Mimi: I know that's how far back he went.

Mike: Wow.

Mimi: Now he's correct. His family.

Mike: Correct? Yeah.

Mimi: But my father's little tale at the end doesn't belong there.

Mike: Well, and that was passed along to you, so your whole growing up you thought, Hey, he's Sicilian.

Mimi: Absolutely. I met people. I went over there myself later on, and I met these same people. I stayed with them thinking I was blood.

Mike: Well, and you talked about it in your neighborhoods, you dated, your neighborhood was full.

Mimi: And that was Irish kids that I was friends with and found out when I did unearthing my Irish roots, which is the book about finding them. I found out kids I played with are probably second and third cousins.

Mike: So you grew up thinking they're friends and now they're related to you?

Mimi: Yes, and my father had a half brother that lived six blocks away his whole life and he never knew.

Mike: He never knew?

Mimi: No. 'cause his Irish father had a son with another woman. So he had the son with this woman that my father knew was his mother, and then he had a son with another woman, so that made him a half brother.

Mike: After you did your research and wrote your book, did you happen to go back to any of those second cousins and say, Hey we ain't just friends, we're related?

Mimi: Yes. Yes, I did. She can't find where our relationship connects. And I gave her the names, but you gotta do the work.

Mike: Yeah, yeah.

Mimi: Especially second or third. So yeah, that was Brennan's. And then I found and talked to a cousin Scanlon that was actually the half brother's daughter.

Mike: Wow.

Mimi: That lives six blocks away. So I had a cousin that lives six blocks away, so she would, I don't know what that would be if he was half, let's see, what would, what would that make her

Mimi: A half cousin?

Mike: I don't know. I don't know. Related, related to you in some way, do you think it would've changed your dad's? How, how might it have changed? I know you're guessing your dad's perception of himself and his life. If he would've known the truth?

Mimi: Hundred percent.

Mike: In what way?

Mimi: Because he would've known these people.

Mimi: He was related to the family he thought he was in. The Italian family. His adopted mother. Her family snubbed him. They didn't accept him. His adopted mother didn't really accept him. She called him names and told him to go back to the horror that had him, told him that in Italian. And so he was kind of lonely because, the father's side, the so-called father who was not really his biological father, he had no relatives over there. All the relatives were on the wife's side, and she hated this child. Right? So he didn't have like a, a big happy family. You know, and if, if he had known about his Irish family that he had a half brother six blocks away, we would've had a lot more people in our life.

Mike: Yeah.

Mimi: For sure. So I think a hundred percent difference.

Mike: Did you know the half brother?

Mimi: No, I did not. He would've been my father's age, maybe a few years younger. Yeah. All of that. Right. I'm correcting myself when I looked it up. They were born the same year. He had my father with the woman that was not his wife, and then he had a son with a woman that was his wife, and they were born the same year, 1927.

Mimi: So he was an alcoholic and we had a lot of neighborhood bars. And I say they might have drank together in every [inaudible].

Mike: Right.

Mimi: But yeah.

Mike: Now when you're doing this, the, I wanted to talk about this because families I think are interesting to me. I've done family therapy for, I did it for a long time.

Mike: And the secrets, the secrets we keep. Are so not healthy. And so, so you're doing the research and you just must have picked it up and started doing it. What did you think? What was it like when you said, oh my.

Mimi: Yes.

Mike: When you found out the truth, what did you do? Who'd you tell?

Mimi: Well, the first thing.

Mimi: Well, of course I told the immediate family.

Mike: Did they believe you?

Mimi: Well, they believed me. Of course, they believed me, but it, it didn't, like they didn't know those grandparents. I didn't, that would've been their great grandparents. The people that [inaudible] to my father, I did not know them because, my grandfather that adopted, my father died before I was born, and the wife died when I was about maybe five or six years old.

Mimi: So I really didn't know them, and I barely knew the other side of the family, the Italian side of the family that was very distant to us. Okay. I was close to my mother's side of the family who were Italian. So I had a bunch of cousins. I was the oldest, I was the first one born in the Italian, real Italian mother's side.

Mimi: So I was the oldest of all the cousins. And my family only had four children, but the rest of them all had 6, 7, 8 children. So. (laughs) I have lots of cousins.

Mike: Wow.

Mimi: Yeah. And they all married... My aunts, well, let's see, my one aunt, she married an Italian, you know, so her children were full Italian.

Mimi: Okay. And she had six kids. Right. And then the other ones married, you know, polish or whatever. But they knew, they knew what the mix was.

Mike: Sure.

Mimi: Right.

Mike: Did it change your perception of, of yourself too. Do you now celebrate St. Patrick's Day?

Mimi: The funny thing of it is like Scranton, Pennsylvania is a big Irish town.

Mike: Yeah.

Mimi: They celebrate St. Patrick's Day pretty much the whole month of March.

Mike: Wow.

Mimi: Well, they have the lead up to it. They, we have a St. Patrick's Day parade, and then they have the actual day itself. And don't forget, I was in the bar business.

Mike: Yeah.

Mimi: So St. Patrick's Day for my adult life was a big deal.

Mimi: And I would bring up the fact that I was one fourth Irish because I knew about the mother, but I didn't know I was really half Irish. Yeah.

Mike: Could have sold more green beer.

Mimi: I probably would be more motivated. (laughs) I would get into it more. I, trust me, Mike, I got into it enough. (laughs)

Mike: Yeah, yeah, right. We, we talked about that the last time and it's amazing.

Mike: One of my favorite parts the last times conversation was the. You got while in rehab. You got cards from the beer distributors.

Mimi: Beer distributors. Yeah.

Mike: I just think that's great.

Mimi: I have flowers. I got huge bouquets.

Mike: Oh, that's great.

Mimi: Of flowers. And the other people in the rehab thought I was some kind of actress or something, because with these huge bouquets, I got at least three of them.

Mike: Well, what people believe. They believe.

Mimi: Well, husband didn't know anything about anonymity, you know?

Mike: Yeah, yeah. Well, the reason I mentioned St. Patrick's Day is my dad, Irish through and through, was his birthday's in March. So when you said the whole month, you're not kidding. And, and he had a problem.

Mike: People who listened to this know, and my dad was had an alcohol problem. And so Mimi, we didn't see him. March was bender month. And so from his birthday through St. Patrick's Day, even when he was around he was gone. Yeah. Right.

Mimi: Yeah.

Mike: And so, you know, you have the Italian side, but then your dad's substance abuse problems just kind of went with the territory.

Mike: Huh?

Mimi: You know, it's interesting to me that my mother's side of the family, which definitely was Italian when I met some of them that lived in Italy. Nobody seemed to have a drinking problem. They drank wine with dinner. It was just the thing to do. But no one seemed to be an alcoholic or I didn't hear any stories of that.

Mimi: Right. And that to me was interesting. And on my mother's side too, like, none of her sisters were alcoholics. Her brother wasn't an alcoholic. There were some mental issues with some of the sisters, but the alcoholism wasn't there. I bring that up because I really think there was a genetic part to that.

Mimi: The alcoholism, I believe that. There was genetic and then the fact that he grew up in such a terrible environment, a cold, unloving household, you know, that kind of thing, feeling alone and I think he drank to be with other people. You know, you like to go to bars. Yeah.

Mike: A lot of people say that, you know whatever gaps they had growing up when they discovered drinking or drugs, it, it fills a hole.

Mike: And if you haven't learned to fill the hole in another way, it becomes much more attractive.

Mimi: Exactly.

Mike: How far back did you go? You went you know, when reading your book, you went, how did, and how'd you do it? How long did it take? You went way back.

Mimi: It took me a few months. I used DNA ancestry.

Mike: Oh.

Mimi: See that's the great thing. The people that have done it, that matched me, you know, I would look them up and, and see how close our matches was, and that's how I did the tree. So, you know, I would find out, okay, this person related to us, if they could find their mother. You know, so then I would find their mother, but wouldn't have who the husband was.

Mimi: So then I'd have to do some more digging to find out who the husband was, and then I'd find the children. It was kind of fun.

Mike: Yeah.

Mimi: It was time consuming. And sometimes I'd go down the rabbit hole and I'd say, oh, I'm, I'm doing this for hours. I gotta stop and feed my husband, you know? (laughs)

Mike: (laughs) Yeah. It's a hobby, right.

Mimi: Yeah, it was more than that 'cause it was like finding out a lot of stuff I did not know. So yeah, I went back to, I wanna say 18th century. County Mayo. Yeah. Pretty much around the potato famine and all that stuff. I went there and found out a lot of my relatives moved to Scranton Pennsylvania from County Mayo.

Mimi: And my real grandmother and my real grandfather both were from County Mayo, different towns, Sligo and Rose Common. And I don't know, I don't think they knew each other in Ireland. Okay. And I say this in the book, when I looked up the records, his birth record, hers, et cetera, I think she must have been raped because he was like, he was like 10 years older than her, and she was like 14.

Mike: Wow!

Mimi: And catholic Irish people, you did not have babies unmarried. It just was not acceptable. So I am positive they put her in the St. Joseph's, they had an orphanage and a place for unwed mothers.

Mike: Wow. That must have rang a bell.

Mimi: Well, yeah. Yes it did, because that's where my father was born. And I think they probably had her there when she started to show.

Mimi: I think they sent her there away from people's sight. They kept it a total secret.

Mike: Sure.

Mimi: So until he was born and then she could go home. Right. And he was there till he was four years old. That's why it's like, I used to think to myself, if this is his real father, and he knew he was there, why did he wait till he was four years old?

Mike: Mm-hmm.

Mimi: Yeah.

Mike: You know, have you, you talked about going to Sicily. Did you go to County Mayo?

Mimi: I haven't done that yet because you know, this is all fairly recent, the last couple years that I found this stuff out. I had always, I've been to Italy twice, you know, and I met relatives from both sides and when I told the relatives that weren't really my relatives that I found out, they really weren't my blood relatives, they didn't care.

Mike: (laughs) That's great. Yeah.

Mimi: No, we're, we're still cousins. We love you. You come stay with us, whatever. Because we had gotten to know them. You know? Yeah. That, that's something, isn't it?

Mike: Well, it is. And you know, if you, if you go, first of all, I've been there. It's gorgeous. It's beautiful. Yeah. One of my memories is flying when you fly in, if the sun is out, which is iffy .

Mike: You see every shade, you know, they talk about green. Well, it's not just green, it's every shade of green you ever thought of.

Mike: Yeah. And so it's fascinating. And the people are equally gregarious and welcoming. That's you know, I wasn't allowed to stay in a hotel. I had to stay with relatives.

Mimi: Yes.

Mike: The house that my grandparents built and grew up in, the lady invited me in for lunch. I don't even know her. I just show up and.

Mimi: Yeah.

Mike: Next thing you know, she's cooking for me.

Mimi: That's what happened in Italy. They wouldn't let me stay in a hotel. And my cousin that lives in Alberobello, which is beautiful, it's actually an Italian tourist town.

Mimi: So Italians go there on vacation because it's rustic and it has this specific type of buildings that they lived in called truly. And they're built in an odd way out of bricks and a certain I'll have to have a picture at the end of the notes. But anyway, they, they had me stay with them, didn't pay for a thing.

Mimi: They wouldn't even let me pay for some beers.

Mike: Wow.

Mimi: And the only thing talking about culture and alcohol. Wine and Italian is very acceptable. Very acceptable. And my birthday happened to be the same time. They threw me a beautiful birthday party at a hotel. And of course, this one woman that I did not know, I wasn't related to her.

Mimi: She didn't know I was an alcoholic, you know? So she kept pushing me to have this wine. She said, you have to taste this wine. This is the best wine you're ever gonna have. You have to have a taste. And I didn't wanna tell her, you know, well, I, I don't have to tell her. I just kept saying no. She was like, pushing that wine at me.

Mimi: She said, just take a sip.

Mike: Wow.

Mimi: So, so finally I said to her, I'm allergic. I'm allergic to wine.

Mike: Did she buy that?

Mimi: Well, yeah, that she backed off, but I mean, really? (laughs)

Mike: Yeah. Well think about that and I don't expect you to have the answer to this, but Mimi, Italian wine, French wine, Russian vodka, Irish beer, Irish whiskey.

Mike: There's a lot of cultural associations with alcohol. You know?

Mimi: Mm-hmm.

Mimi: Which type of alcohol they drink too. Russian is vodka.

Mimi: Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Mike: Why does alcohol sometimes define a culture?

Mimi: Well, I think because of the type of alcohol has to do with the culture because in Russia, you know, potatoes are a big crop and they make vodka in Russia.

Mimi: That's their most prominent alcohol is vodka. So I think of vodka, I think of Russians. And French again they grow grapes. That's a big commodity for them. They make wine so naturally, I, I think it follows. And the thing in with, with Ireland, which was I thought was funny, is the Irish Catholic were oppressed by the Protestant Catholics from England. And they weren't allowed to do a lot of things. Like they weren't allowed to make alcohol and a lot of the farmers had stills. You know what a still is, right?

Mike: Sure. Mm-hmm.

Mimi: And they made it and they they, I think they did use potatoes and other things, you know, but if they got caught, they got fined or put in jail.

Mimi: Yeah.

Mike: You know, but if you think about it, I don't think the connotation is the same for like French wine and Irish whiskey Irish beer.

Mimi: No.

Mike: My whole life it's been like, oh, Irish and it, and it goes, oh, over drinking. Right? So, yes.

Mimi: Yes.

Mike: Yeah. And now that you know that, and it's hidden too. It's hidden within families.

Mimi: And I really believe it's because they had such a hard life, like especially certain parts of Ireland, like County Mayo.

Mike: Right.

Mimi: And I mean, you know, talk about Hitler trying to wipe out the Jews. I really believe that the Protestant Catholics, well, Catholics, like I said, the Protestants from England, the Lords, the upper class, the Royal people wanted to get rid of the poor Irish Catholics, if that makes sense.

Mimi: If you weren't gonna be a Protestant, they weren't gonna have anything to do with you. They took their land. They would walk right in and take their land. The only way my ancestors got to keep their land is they had it for over a hundred years. They had it for over a hundred years in the family.

Mimi: They couldn't take it.

Mike: Have you communicated with any of them? I know you haven't been there, but have you communicated with any of 'em?

Mimi: Not anybody over there, just in, in the United States, I found a first cousin, so that's wonderful. I'm on communication.

Mike: That's great.

Mimi: Yeah. I'm, I took a break from that research because I ended up writing two more books and having a podcast and a YouTube show.

Mike: Yeah.

Mimi: And I take care of, my husband has Parkinson's and, you know, a lot going on, but I will be getting back into it. In doing some deeper research, let's say, you know,

Mike: Well, it's great and it fits our podcast because it's you know, there are associations with it. And Mimi, I'll let you go.

Mike: For this part with this, as they say, it's not just alcohol, right? You certainly got the Irish gift for Gab.

Mimi: Oh, I did.

Mike: And that's a good thing.

Mimi: It is!

Mike: That's great. Well, the book and you can find the book on Amazon. We'll put a link to that for you all. The book is called Irish Roots.

Mike: Right?

Mimi: Unearthing my Irish Roots.

Mike: Unearthing your Irish Roots.

Mimi: Yeah. Because I had to dig them up. (laughs)

Mike: Yeah. (laughs) Well, that's great. That's great.

Mike: For those of you listening, we so enjoy you listening. I hope you enjoy these. We hope that you find yourself, feel good about yourself. Thanks for listening.

Mike: Be safe and keep the faith.