My Cup is Full

[Music]

Mike: Welcome everyone to Avoiding the Addiction Affliction a series brought to you by the Kenosha County Substance Abuse Coalition. I'm Mike McGowan. I wanted to continue our conversation about substance abuse and young people today. Amanda is a young person with a story of alcohol abuse and recovery, and she's been kind enough to join us today.

Mike: Welcome Amanda.

Amanda: Thanks.

Mike: I'm so glad you could be with us today. It always helps if we just start out by you just going a little bit and telling us a little bit about your story.

Amanda: Yeah, for sure. Um, I came into the rooms about a year and a month ago. Very roughly, um, I, it was in the middle of the COVID pandemic.

Amanda: I very much came in during Zoom. Um, I didn't really know what a was or what the program was. Um, and so I, I kind of found a bunch of resources and like Facebook groups and stuff like that. Um, and I found this really cool, um, Zoom group that does recovery meetings. Um, and I went on there and when I did that, I just.

Amanda: They ask if there's any newcomers. And so I was like, ya, I knew like, I don't know what to do, but I'm here. Um, and they gave me a phone list with a bunch of women's numbers on it. And they have certain people like highlighted the sponsor, um, or just like, if they're not highlighted, they can still, you can reach out and just kind of talk through whatever you're going through.

Amanda: Um, so for me, I was like, okay, I, so I went through the list and I found a couple people that were actually in the same state as me. Cause I thought that that would matter. I reached out to a couple people that were in the same state as me in that were highlighted. I was like, I don't know what a sponsor is or what they do, but I just, I need help.

Amanda: And it was a matter of just kind of. Throughout that just kind of saying, you know, I don't know what to do, but I know that I can't do it on my own. Um, and that's just kind of how I came in. Um, As far as like what brought me in, I just, there were nights where I would, I would be sitting, you know, in my room and I would just be like crying, cause I didn't want to drink, but I didn't know how to put it down.

Amanda: Um, and I think that was something that really kind of woke me up and kind of made me realize that that wasn't normal.

Mike: When did you start drinking?

Amanda: I started drinking. Um, I want to say. I had my first drink from a very young age when I was probably like 12 or 13, um, very consistently drinking, I would say probably around 17, right around high school.

Mike: And you're in your early twenties now, right?

Amanda: Yes, I am.

Mike: So, so it took from 13 until like 21 or 20 to say, ah, this is enough.

Amanda: Yeah.

Mike: How bad did it get?

Amanda: Um, I've never been in like jail or anything like that. Um, and I'm grateful for that. I think. I do have some issues as far as like, you know, my, I have people that I've lost, like very close to me, just because of it, just because of ways I've reacted. Um, there were times where I would, I would pray to whatever higher power I believed in then.

Amanda: And I would say, you know, just, I don't want to wake up, uh, whether it was me drinking myself to death or something else. I just, I did not want to be here because I knew that if I woke up, I would have to drink, um, And I think that was something that, again, made me realize, you know, maybe it's time to get help on this.

Mike: Now where you, where you at some point daily drinking.

Amanda: Yes. Um, most of the time I was, um, I would say there were a couple of days I could go like maybe a day or two without a drink, but for the most part I was drinking very consistently throughout the day, every day.

Mike: What did you drink?.

Amanda: Pretty much whatever was available.

Mike: I thought you were gonna say vodka.

Amanda: I mean, definitely there was vodka in there, but it was pretty much whatever it was in the house or whatever I, whatever was around.

Mike: Well, now you did this when you were living at home, right?

Amanda: Yes.

Mike: So did your parents know that you were doing this?

Amanda: They knew that I would drink, but they wouldn't know to the extent that I was, cause I would hide like stuff in my room.

Amanda: Um, and so they would know that I drank because like on holidays and stuff, they wouldn't care. But, um, I don't think they knew like the extent of how bad it was getting.

Mike: How'd you get it?

Amanda: Um, just whenever they went out to like stores and stuff, if they, you know, if they bought like two or three bottles, a lot of times they wouldn't notice like half of a bottle missing. And so it just be something that I think kind of store away. Cause they wouldn't even notice it was gone.

Mike: Yeah. Right. That happens. I mean, that's the story I hear all the time. Well, did this, did this, you, if you're drinking in high school, this had to affect your school a little bit.

Amanda: Yeah. I mean, it definitely, you know, coming in from my earlier grades, you know, on, um, throughout my schooling, even throughout middle school, you know, I, I was very much like a top student.

Amanda: I was an A student, a B student, and then as my. Everything progressed in high school and through out, I, I could see that I was just like, I either didn't go to school. I didn't want to go to school as much. I, um, I, if I had homework, I was like, oh, whatever, I don't have to do it. So I very often like would just let my grades slip.

Amanda: I very, very easily became like a C-D student. Um, and I could see that happening. But I, I didn't care I guess as much as I did before.

Mike: Was it almost like looking at your life from the outside in?

Amanda: Yeah.

Mike: So did you graduate? I did. Oh, good, good. And the night of your graduation, were you sober? I don't know any of this.

Mike: Did you, were you sober graduation?

Amanda: At my graduation I was, not for very long after that, but at my graduation, I was, yes.

Mike: Did you, did you ever drink before school started or during the day or at school?

Amanda: Um, I didn't, there were very few times that I would drink at school. There was like maybe once or twice. Um, but I definitely drank, I would take a couple of shots before school.

Amanda: Um, and then I would drink after school almost all the time, but, um, very rarely that I do it as at school, just because I don't know. I guess I knew that I wasn't supposed to. And I was like, yeah, I don't want to get caught. And then it become a bigger issue.

Mike: Uh, what, how about the people around you? Did they suspect, did they say anything?

Mike: Did they think that alcohol was the issue?

Mike: I, I think,

Amanda: you know, looking back on it, I want to say, I think my teachers knew, but they didn't want to pry. Um, just because, you know, there were, there would always be those conversations of, you know, if you need anything, you know? And approaching it from a very vague standpoint of, you know, well, we're always here if you need to talk and if anything's going on.

Amanda: So I want to say that they knew something was going on, but I don't know that they knew. Again, I don't think they knew to what extent it could be. Um, as far as like my family, again, I don't think most of them knew. I, I kind of always just kept it in my room. Um, and I would just kind of isolate myself while drinking.

Amanda: Um, and then I would just drink until I fell asleep. Um, so they would always just think I went to sleep like really early. Um, and so I really don't think that they really saw it as, as much of an issue as it was.

Mike: And what, so what, what ended up making you just say that's enough? I, I just it's now it's now gone from something I'm doing to, this is pretty bad.

Amanda: Yeah. I, um, you know, there were, um, there were, uh, several moments um, but you know, there were times where, like I had mentioned, you know, I just, I didn't want to wake up and I knew that I didn't. I would I sit in my room that night crying and drinking because I didn't want to wake up, but I didn't want to keep drinking.

Amanda: Um, but I didn't know how to handle whatever was going on without drinking. Um, and I would very much use that as a buffer. And I think for me, that's something that was very prevalent. I knew that I did not want to be here if I had to keep drinking, but I couldn't put the drink down. Um, and I think for me, I kind of, there was one night where I had mentioned, you know, I kind of, I literally prayed.

Amanda: I was just like, you know, don't wake me up. I know I don't want to be here. Um, and I think for me, it was kind of, you know, Hey, these aren't normal thoughts. Um, and, and that's the crazy part. Looking back at it. Most of my alcoholic thinking I thought was 100% normal. I was like, oh, everyone thinks like this. Everyone thinks like this.

Amanda: Um, and I never thought it was an issue because, you know, I thought everyone did that. Um, but I think those thoughts of, you know, I don't want to be here. I don't want to drink, but I don't want to be here if I have to. Um, I think those are the thoughts that kind of woke me up and was like, uh, not everyone thinks like this,

Mike: So, but you you're, you look like a really happy person.

Amanda: I want to say that I was definitely not like that coming into the rooms. Um, I was very down on myself. Very miserable. And I'm very grateful to the program today that, you know, I, I have my higher power that I rely on. I have a fellowship of my sponsor that I rely on and I have, they call it very often a spiritual toolkit that helps me get through, um, situations.

Amanda: And I think. A lot of times, that's what gives me my brighter outlook on life now. Um, and it makes me seem like a more happy person. Um, just because, you know, I'm not as miserable as I was drinking and I know how far down I can get and looking back on it, it, it's hard to not be happy being where I'm at, knowing where I came from.

Mike: How long has it been now?

Amanda: That I've been sober?

Mike: Ya.

Amanda: Um, a year and twenty-ish days.

Mike: So you just passed a year. Congratulations.

Amanda: I did, thank you.

Mike: Did your sponsor give you a chip?

Amanda: She did. Um, she actually lives several hours away from me, so she made the drive all the way down here to come to a meeting and give it to me.

Mike: Isn't that incredible?

Amanda: It is.

Mike: So if it's a year and a couple of days, how long before you got your smile back?

Amanda: Um, I would say probably around two to three months.

Amanda: Um, cause it, I would say, you know, going through the steps, it's not always a very joyful ride. You know, you pull up a lot of stuff. Um, especially going through [inaudible], um, it's very much, you know, there's some stuff that you have to work through. And I definitely dragged my feet through that for a while.

Amanda: Um, but you know, I got through it, you know, once I did, I think once I got through my fifth step on around, I want to say around four months. So it was when I started to feel, you know, Hey, I feel like this burden lifted off of me and I feel like I can just kind of be free. Um, and that's very much, I think that's right around when it started coming back.

Mike: That's awesome. You know, I, I was just talking to a couple of medical professionals who run a treatment center and I told them that I used to start when I was working with young people. I used to start on the fourth step. We skipped the first three and started on the fourth one because it's really key.

Mike: Isn't it. To make that list and get that garbage over with.

Amanda: Yeah for me, my first three steps went very quick. Um, just because, you know, I had a belief in my higher power, so it was easy to get through those very quickly. Um, and then for me fourth step was very much where I was like, oh, this got real. Um, and it made me rethink, there were several times where I was like, you know, I don't need to do this.

Amanda: Um, but I, I got through it and it was definitely, it does. It's very important to do it. Um, but it's also one where you know, that you don't necessarily want to do it because it's stuff that you haven't or sorry that I have it there's stuff that I haven't told anyone that I had, that I had to write down on my fourth step.

Amanda: Um, and I I'm grateful that I found a sponsor that I trusted enough to go through it with, but there were stuff that I was like, oh, I haven't told anyone this, and now I'm just going to tell it to some stranger.

Mike: I think that helps us sometimes, don't you?

Amanda: Yeah. I, 100% knew. Um, I think that it helps that I, she does, or my sponsor at that time didn't know everything she knew.

Amanda: I could tell her in what order I wanted to tell things. Um, and I think that helped because she didn't have like a preconceived idea of what I was, what I had already gone through. Um, so I definitely agree that that whole.

Mike: So after you made the decision to enter the room, you know, COVID had it's up, uh, side.

Mike: Um, I love this Zoom meeting concept. I've talked to a lot of people we're meeting with people from all over the world, let alone the country. So good for you for doing that. That's just incredible. But how did you have any hiccups along the way? Did you relapse at all?

Amanda: I did not. I didn't relapse in the form of taking a drug or a drink. Um, my program, I, I often say my program relapsed, um, and being so that, you know, there was about a month and a half where I didn't even know where my big book was. Um, I wasn't doing my daily readings. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't praying to my higher power I wasn't in meetings.

Amanda: Um, and so I would say that there was definitely like a program relapsed for me several times within the year. Um, But as far as like me going back out and drinking or drugging, that did not happen.

Mike: What was that first couple of weeks like without alcohol?

Amanda: Um, it definitely sucked, um, you know, it wasn't great.

Amanda: It was. I knew. I knew that after the first couple of days, like after I'd gone through like more of like the withdrawal symptoms of it, I just kind of knew that this is something that this is, Hey, you know, this is how you're supposed to feel. You know, I can, I was able to deal with feelings more as they came up, instead of just kind of burying them, you know?

Amanda: I often say going through step 1 they talk about your life being unmanageable. Um, and I often when I came in, I said, oh my life, isn't, it isn't unmanageable. Um, but you know, going back through it with my sponsor, I kind of look back on it and I was like, oh, you know, maybe it was, but everything that was unmanageable, I just swept under the rug [inaudible].

Amanda: And I think that's 100% kind of what kind of. Made me realize, you know, Hey, maybe your life is unmanageable, but I just, it was things that I got to deal with now, um, that I wasn't able to deal with before.

Mike: Did you find that when you were drinking that your social skills and like you're talking about your emotional coping was delayed, that you used alcohol to just cover that stuff?

Amanda: Ya, 100%, ya.

Mike: So how old did you feel then?

Amanda: I don't really know, you know? Um, I would say, yeah, I, I honestly don't know.

Mike: Well, were you still, I mean, now, now that you look back, it's clearly you have some coping skills, right?

Amanda: Yeah.

Mike: Yeah. Those did those just come back. Did you have them before or did you just have to work on them?

Amanda: Um, I think it's a mixture of both.

Amanda: I think I knew. I knew of them. I don't think they were very much applied the right way, um, in any, even before my drinking that very furious. Um, so I think it was a matter of both. I knew what they were and I knew stuff like that, but I think it took a lot of work to kind of apply them into situations and apply them into my life.

Mike: Yeah. Did you substitute the drinking with anything? I have a lot of friends who are recovering and many of them, you rarely see them without a coffee cup in their hand, or a tumbler with a straw and water. Right. And gum, something.

Amanda: Yeah, I, um, I try not to, um, and this is something that I always work on, you know, it's, um, I try not to substitute things, but it's very easy to slip back into like that alcoholic mindset of, oh, I just want, um, when I first came in, in the rooms, it was like online shopping.

Amanda: Cause you know, it was just a swipe of a, to pay for. So I would just buy like whatever I saw. Um, I mean, today it's very much so I get very into like sodas and stuff like that, but, um, It, and it's things that, you know, I, I try not to like substitute it, but, you know, there's times where, you know, I, I kind of reason with myself and while at least it's soda and not alcohol.

Mike: Well, my know the listeners know that my mom was recovering. And when she stopped drinking Amanda, uh, she went from, uh, I think it was quart of Brandy a day to drinking, um, like a dozen Coca-Cola's a day. And she, and she puts sugar in it

Mike: [Laughter] And then she weaned yourself off of that. But you know, it had to be something else, right?

Amanda: Right. Yeah. And that's something, that's something I hear in the rooms a lot is excuse me, you know, alcoholics, especially they have like that need for sweets after. Like they get rid of the alcohol. Um, and it's so crazy to hear that, you know, because it's very much, you know, whether it's chocolate or like you said, like adding sugar, it's something that you need, like that sugar, that sweet of it.

Mike: So do, can you talk for a minute about, I think a lot of young people, um, tell me that, that first AA meeting, that first support group meeting is, uh, difficult. It's a, that's a, you know, I, maybe it's easier to swipe into a room. Right. But it's hard to walk in from a parking lot or to start talking. So what was that experience like?

Amanda: Yeah. Um, for me, my first meeting, um, like I did say it was on Zoom, so that was a lot easier just, you know, type in. And if I didn't want to listen, I can just turn it off. Or if I didn't want to be seen, I could just turn my camera off. Um, my first in-person meeting was probably around my third month in the program.

Amanda: Um, and it very much, it was difficult. I pulled in and my first meeting, I didn't even go to, I pulled in, I sat in the parking lot and, I left [laughter].

Mike: I hear that all the time.

Amanda: Really? Yeah, I was, I was like, I don't know what this is, you know? And then I called, um, I called one of my fellows and I was like, so I just left a meeting that I didn't go to. Um, and I kind of asked them to go with me to the next week. Um, and I'm greatful, because through Zoom, I was able to make that fellow, we knew it. We knew each other that way.

Mike: That's awesome. You know, think about that. You know, if you wouldn't have had that contact, you know, maybe you would have just said, I'm not doing that. You know?

Amanda: Right, yeah, it's awesome that I, I get to build these relationships with people now. Um, and I get to just kind of have genuine friends now.

Mike: Well, talk about that for a second. Did you have, uh, did you have any old relationships that weren't healthy, that you needed to say goodbye to?

Amanda: Um, there were definitely some, you know, there were people in my life that I just, I knew that it wasn't great for myself to be around. Um, but I didn't really care as long as I had a drink.

Amanda: And so, I was like, you know, whatever, but, you know, as I got sober, it was, it was difficult making those cutoffs and saying, Hey, you know, I can't continue to be friends if we do this, this and this. Um, but it was steps that I needed to take. Um, they talk in the rooms a lot about people, places and things.

Amanda: Um, and for me, the people was a very big aspect. It was very much, you know, Hey, I, I respect whatever you want to do, but for me, I kind of to had to distance myself from a lot of it.

Mike: Did you actually have those conversations or did you just let the relationships drift away?

Amanda: Some of them, I just kind of let drift away, but there were some that I had a very strong, like we would talk every day. So I had to have those conversations. Cause I knew it wasn't just going to drift away. Um, but some of them 100% just kind of went away.

Mike: Your heart had to be beating so hard when you knew you had to have that conversation.

Amanda: Yeah, 100% it was.

Mike: How did it go?

Amanda: Um, most of them, I want to say most of them understood. Um, just because it was something that I was doing to better myself and, you know, there's always going to be people that don't understand that don't understand the disease that don't understand whatever. Um, and there's always situations like that. I want to say, but, um, for the most part, most of them were just like, okay, well, if that's what you need to do, that's what you need to do.

Mike: And, you know, here's the other part, I think that people in general struggle with, you know, now that you say about your relationships, well, that can be kind of lonely, right?

Amanda: Ya.

Mike: How do you make new ones?

Amanda: That's something that I think the program, again, helps a lot with, you know, it's, it's, like-minded people that you're all in a meeting with all the time. Um, and especially through Zoom, you know, um, there's a room that I go to that's 24/7 that I can literally log on anytime of the day.

Amanda: It's the people and to know them and you build these relationships with them and. I want to say so much healthier, having those friendships than the ones that I had before drinking, because they're all, they've all worked the steps or are working the steps and they all have that same like-minded newness as you. And I think that's something that has helped tremendously.

Mike: I, you know, it's kinda cool and they're just a click away. Right?

Amanda: Yes.

Mike: That's really awesome. Are you, are you working, do you have, are you in school? What are you doing now?

Amanda: Yeah, I actually, I work two jobs. Um, so I work at, um, like a call center type job where it's very much in an office type setting.

Amanda: Um, and then I also work at a bowling alley.

Mike: Wow. Wow. Uh, did you say a bowling alley?

Amanda: I did.

Mike: Okay. So, uh, all right. You know what I'm going to ask next, right? Um, how hard is it to be around alcohol?

Amanda: Um, so my manager at the bowling alley knows that I am in recovery. And I think that really helps because he'll put me on shifts where, you know, day shift very much, you have to like serve alcohol and ring it up and everything like that.

Amanda: Whereas night shift, I'm only up at the front desk. I'm ringing people in [inaudible] and I think that's something that really helps. Um, not to say that if I had to serve alcohol, I would just say, oh, you know what, I need to drink. But I think it definitely helps kind of removing myself from that situation if I don't have to be in it.

Mike: Yeah. Do you still, are you still hypersensitive to noticing it everywhere or is it now just blend in?

Amanda: Yeah, I think, I think for me, it just kind of all blends in there and times where, if I'm really struggling in my program, that 100% that, that hypersensitivity comes back like, oh, well there's a drink, but for the most part, it just kind of blends in.

Mike: Would you be all right if I ask you, what's your relationship with your folks like now?

Amanda: Um, [Laughter]. Yeah, I mean. It's up and down. I will say, um, I live with my uncle currently, who doesn't believe alcoholism is a disease. Um, [Laughter].

Mike: There ya go.

Amanda: Yeah, so that's, um, interesting. Um, but you know, it, I, I want to say also, you know, the program kind of helps me deal with that. It helps me come up with these things of, you know, I have to take accept them where they're at. Um, and, uh, he doesn't want to believe in it that's on him. I can't, I can't force him to believe my beliefs as much as he can't force me to believe his.

Amanda: Um, so I think that's something that has definitely helped. We just kind of accept each other where we're at and live together happily.

Mike: Yeah. So not preachy, right? He's not preachy and you're not a walking big book, right. When you walk in, um, I, you know, I wonder when you talk to people, do you find that that's pretty common? Cause it was your common in my family.

Amanda: Yeah. Um, I think it really just depends, you know, I think there are people that have family and stuff in the program. So it's not as common with them because their family has been through the steps and their family sponsoring people. Um, but then again, there's people that are like, oh, what is that? You know, that's not even a thing.

Amanda: Um, so I think it really just depends on your family's history and background in it.

Mike: Yeah, I think it, one of the things that I thought was kind of funny is when you and I first started talking, um, and I asked you if you wanted to do this, you said, well I don't know. I only did alcohol, which is funny. Cause it's like only the number one drug in the country, right?

Amanda: Right. [Laughter], Ya.

Mike: So never floated because you mentioned earlier, no, no other drugs or alcohol. So drugs were never a part of the equation.

Amanda: It was, but not very much. Um, and you know, I would, there would be times where I couldn't get alcohol or I just can't have any on me that I could very much go and just get whatever was available, um, as far as other substances, but, you know, for the most part, um, that was very very few times.

Amanda: Um, but very most of the time it was, um, alcohol.

Mike: And what. Okay, so what's more prevalent than alcohol or what's is easy to get in, in high school.

Amanda: Um, I mean, weed was um, something that was very easy to get in pretty much wherever you were. Um, and then of course, you know, once, you know, those people, you know, more people that know where to get other things and it just kind of snowballs from there.

Amanda: Um, and I'm grateful that I never took it to that extent. You know, for the most part it was weed. Maybe. I think I did. I want to say I did Coke like twice, three times, maybe at most, but that's really it. Um, and then my main fallback was just, oh, let me go have a drink.

Mike: Yeah. I, you know, um, I have kids, especially who tell me in my work that, uh, marijuana is easier to get in most high schools than alcohol is, which is, uh amazing, if you think about it, it's just incredible.

Amanda: Yeah, that definitely, it was a case for me ya.

Mike: So tell me now. All right. So you were kind enough to do this early in the morning. What is it like to wake up in recovery? What's the day like now?

Amanda: Um, you know, I, it's definitely more routine, um, Before I would just kind of wake up on my day, float on by, as it needed to, and just kind to handle things as they come and drink throughout the day.

Amanda: Um, you know, today I, I wake up and I have my planner near my bed where I, I review everything that I'm going to do. Um, and then I have my big book where, you know, I have to go through my daily readings, uh, pages 84 through 86. I just kind of know where to stop. So I don't look at page numbers anywhere, but, um, it's, it's very much now more routine, but I think it kind of keeps me solid in my program and in that connection with my higher power.

Mike: That's great. Enjoy the day a little bit more than you used to.

Amanda: Yeah. 100%.

Mike: And your relationship's pretty healthy?

Amanda: Yeah, for the most part. Um, and again, there's always somewhere, you know, I, I want to slip back into that thinking of, oh, you know, it's okay if, if they're using while we're hanging out, but you know, it takes some time and talking with my sponsor and just praying about situations that makes me realize, um, maybe we shouldn't be friends with these people as much, um, or just kind of distance myself from them.

Mike: Well, let me, let me ask you one more, one last question. I'll be sensitive to your time. So, uh, for the listener, because of when these play, they're not always, when we tape them, obviously, um, yesterday was, uh, the Superbowl. So this is the Monday after the Superbowl, which is the, uh, one of well, it's absolutely the largest gambling day in the United States.

Mike: Uh, and it's also a huge day for alcohol consumption. Did you watch it?

Amanda: I did watch the Superbowl. Um, and in fact my family was drinking during it, but, you know, I just kind of stayed in my little bubble on the couch and just watch the game.

Mike: And so it's not like, Hey, Amanda, you want to drink a, you know, you want something they respectful of your?

Amanda: And they, they definitely ask. Um, but it's just, you know, I have my, I have my phone with me all the time, where if it gets too much, I call up my sponsor. But, um, very much so it's just kind of, you know, I'm good. Thank you.

Mike: Yeah. Is it, isn't it amazing? The inability of some people to have fun if they're not drinking a lot.

Amanda: Yeah. Um, and in each case he would say that now, because I feel like I was one of those people.

Amanda: But, you know, I'm so grateful, you know, and this is my second Superbowl sober, you know, like, um, I had just a few days, I want to say maybe a couple of weeks. And then we, the first time, and it was, I was like, if someone asked me to come to a Superbowl party and I was like, why would I do that if I'm not drinking?

Amanda: You know? Um, but I, but I went and it was so much fun just to be able to actually have conversations with people and be aware of what's going on instead of just getting blackout drunk and not even knowing what the result of the the game was.

Mike: Uh, you know, I, I just, I just did an aha because I didn't realize, uh, you're right in that you were at your living where the Superbowl was last year.

Amanda: Yes.

Mike: So that had to be a huge deal. So talk new and recovery, and it was surrounded with alcohol and still use managed to stay away from it.

Amanda: Yeah. I, um, like I said, you know, I think my sponsor was one of the biggest things in the fellowship, you know, even even going to like the super bowl party, there were definitely times where I was like, oh my God, I just want to drink. But I texted my sponsor and I was like, I have my cup. It's okay. Cause my cup, um, has water in it. So I was like, you know what I have in my cup and it's okay. Cause I have my cup and everything's fine.

Mike: Awesome, that is awesome. [Laughter] I think that's just incredible. You know, part of the reason I wanted to do this is we interview them.

Mike: We talked to a lot of people and I think I hear from a lot of people that are terrified of recovery, as much as they were of their drinking. And this helps a lot, um, to just to hear what you went through that. People that you relied on, the techniques you did. So, uh, I can't thank you enough for doing this Amanda. I think it's awesome.

Amanda: Of course, thank you for having me on here.

Mike: Yeah, not a problem. I hope we get to talk again. Uh, and for the listener, you know how this goes, uh, please listen in the next time when we talk about other issues around substance abuse and until then stay safe and keep your cup handy.