Peaceful Confidence

[Jaunty Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome, everybody. This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction, brought to you by Westwords Consulting and the Kenosha County Substance Use Disorder Coalition. I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: I don't know about the rest of you, but there are times in my life where the biggest obstacle I had to overcome to move forward... was my own brain.

Mike: That was especially true when I was younger. Well, we're going to talk about that today. Well, not my brain in particular, but the obstacles we all set up in our own lives with the way we think about things. My guest is author Jacqui Letran. Jacqui is an author, speaker, nurse practitioner, and teen confidence expert.

Mike: She blends over 20 years of experience working with teens in the medical, social, and educational and holistic settings to provide time tested, practical guidance to help teen and especially teen girls embody what she calls peaceful confidence. Her multi award winning Words of Wisdom for Teen book series is considered a go to resource for teens, parents of teens, and anybody working with them.

Mike: Welcome, Jacqui.

Jacqui: Hi, thank you for having me on today. I'm so looking forward to this conversation.

Mike: Yeah, me too. I've worked with kids, my teenagers, my whole life, so I can't wait to talk about this. But before we get into that you have quite a personal story of your own. So can you kind of give us the Reader's Digest, if that's not too archaic of a reference about your upbringing, yeah.

Jacqui: Definitely. The nickel version is, I'm an immigrant, so I came to the U. S. when I was nine. And, you know, being in a new country, new language, new culture, I was a complete mess. I didn't know where I fit in. And from that, and not feeling like I belonged anywhere, stem all these confidence issue. Low self confidence, really didn't like who I was, didn't like how I looked, how I talked, I didn't like anything about myself.

Jacqui: And from that, it went into developing into anxiety and depression. And because I felt so horrible about myself, I mean, at that point in my life, I truly hated myself and I hated my life. And I made one bad decision after another, trying to connect with people, trying to fit in. And so by the time I was 16, I found myself pregnant.

Jacqui: Luckily the gentleman that, you know I had a baby with, he's actually is a really great guy, but we were both kids. And so we didn't know what we were doing and we struggle left and right. And from there on, it's just really a matter of, okay, this is really sucky. (laugh) This is crap. I mean, like, how do I get out of this?

Jacqui: And especially once I had my son, it just, it was just about, you know, like feeling I don't have a choice of continuing on this spiral downward. Because if I continue to spiral downward, who's going to take care of my son? How is he going to, you know, have this amazing life that I want for him? And so that's when my turnaround started.

Jacqui: And it's definitely a long, very long journey. Because of that darn brain that you talked about in the beginning.

Mike: Well, how did, you know, you went from son to multiple degrees. So, how did those obstacles in your life determine the path that you chose? Like, do you think it got, went into your becoming a nurse practitioner and the rest of it?

Jacqui: Definitely there was a couple things with that. So, the first thing is I am super grateful to my mother. Who drove me nuts in my teen years. I hated her because all she wanted me to do is study. I mean, like that was her primary thing. You know, you get home from school and you hear mom going study, study.

Jacqui: And it's just like, oh, so growing up I hated her, but she set all of her children up for this discipline of being able to really focus and understand the importance of education. And so once I got pregnant and realized, okay, I got to do something different. I already have that foundation. Of being able to just like maximize my time with my education and really, you know, I'm pretty driven once I make it that decision. (laugh)

Jacqui: And so having my son really got me that motivation I needed. I need that external motivation because I didn't like myself enough to have internal motivation. But that external determination got me very highly focused. And so I dropped out of school when I was 17 and earned my master at 23. (laugh)

Mike: Well, how does that work?

Jacqui: Determination! (laugh) Determination and a strong, like I mentioned, a really strong foundation for education.

Mike: Wow. And your master's is in?

Jacqui: Master of Science in nursing. That's where I got my nurse practitioner licensing from.

Mike: Amazing. Well, speaking of a discipline that needs discipline, right?

Mike: Nursing is it. I ran a hospital at one point in my life and working with nurses is an interesting experience because they are incredibly disciplined and know exactly what they need to do to keep their license. Right.

Jacqui: You know, I'm really grateful for the nurses. I didn't have to go that route because again, I was super motivated in my end goal, which was being a nurse practitioner. So I never really had a whole lot of experience practicing as a nurse because the nurse really does everything.

Mike: Mm-Hmm.

Jacqui: I mean, the nurses are the backbone of the medical community. Nurse practitioner, doctors, surgeons, you know, we are important, but without the nurses we're nothing.

Jacqui: They're the daily care, you know, people, right? So for sure I honor nurses. They are amazing. They're very disciplined. As a nurse practitioner I had slightly more leeway.

Mike: Yeah, how did you end up then evolving to author and writing this fabulous series. I just want to make sure I get it right. The words of wisdom for teens.

Mike: How did you evolve into that?

Jacqui: So as I was working as a nurse practitioner, one of the things that I came up with that I just really did not like was I felt really responsible for my patients. I go back between clients and patient because depending on what. I'm working at is a different title. So my patients, I'm seeing a lot of these kids and I'm prescribing them medication, antidepressant, anti-anxiety medication for ADHD.

Jacqui: And you know, I was taught in the medical world before you put someone on antidepressant, you have to really make sure they know this is the long term thing. And so right off the bat, I'm giving these kids a sentence, a life sentence, you know, I'm not telling them they'll be on this for life, but I'm making sure they understand that this is not a one week two week thing that they do have to make a commitment to being on medication and whatnot.

Jacqui: So I felt really responsible for that. And you know, year in, year out, I'm seeing the same patient and I'm increasing the dosage. I'm adding a second medication. I'm changing medication because of side effects. And I just felt really terrible about the whole process. And then I hear kids saying things like, you know, if I didn't have depression, I could do this, that, and the other thing.

Jacqui: If I didn't have anxiety. Well, Jacqui told me I need to be in this medication for at least three months, you know, and so that's what got me interested in looking for alternative methods to take care of my patients. And when I first encountered these holistic options like emotional freedom technique, neuro linguistic programming, hypnosis, I call total BS on it.

Jacqui: I'm like, there's no way these things could work because if it worked, it would be, you know, mainstream and everybody would be happy. But I was curious, so I continue learning and I got, you know, certified from like three different provider for each of those modality I mentioned, because I really wanted to understand that.

Jacqui: And once I start practicing as a mindset mentor. I just couldn't prescribe anymore, so I gave up my medical practice completely. (laugh)

Mike: That's fascinating. You know, boy, there's a podcast in itself, or several of them. Teenagers on medication and getting them to be responsible for them is a huge issue. And parents who are listening, who have kids on meds know exactly what we're talking about, getting them to take them, dealing with the side effects, them not liking the side effects, choosing it on their own.

Mike: So it's great. Well, let's get into the book now. I know you've, you write to teens, but your book geared to girls titled I Would, but My Damn Mind Won't Let Me exploded. And why do you think the girl's book exploded, Jacqui?

Jacqui: Oh, the girl book exploded because I started with that when I put my heart and soul into that one.

Jacqui: I was, and still am very incredibly passionate about helping teen girls because I was that one. I was that teen girl that needed help so badly. So when I wrote those book, it's because my mentoring clients requested information in writing. But then as I was writing it, you know, I'm like, there's just so much here that can help everybody. Because not everybody have the ability to seek care from a professional.

Jacqui: And sometimes all they have is a book from the library, you know, and so I want it to be more wide stream so I push pretty hard to really get that book going. But I think the one thing that really made the book exploded like you said, it's the title.

Mike: Yeah.

Jacqui: I know there are a lot of parents and a lot of grandparents are like Oh my gosh that one word in there! (laugh)

Jacqui: And I hear that a lot still. However, the teens relate to it. They look at that book and they're like, yes, yes, you know, and right off the bat, they're looking at the title of the book and they are already feeling seen and heard. And they're curious about, wait, what is this damn line all about? And then they'll take a peek inside and they read a couple of pages and then they get hooked into it.

Jacqui: I mean, there are so many resources out there that parents give to their teens that just sit there because they have no interest in it at all, right. And so I think having that title is really important. And then like I said, when they start reading it, they get hooked because the way I write is I really simplify everything.

Jacqui: You read some books and they're like, all these words and you're just reading the same paragraph four times trying to understand it. And for me, it's like, no, I want people to be able to consume it quickly, to understand it, to be able to apply it and to make sense in their lives. So I wrote in a very simplistic way and in a relatable way.

Jacqui: And my case studies in there, I mean, every one of us. Teen girls, teen boys, adults can see ourselves in my case studies because we're not that different.

Mike: It's funny because when I ordered it, right, I sat down with it and I did what probably most people do, right? They start paging through it and next thing you know, I'm just going page by page by page.

Mike: And my daughter, my daughter who just graduated college, looks at me and goes, what are you reading?

Jacqui: I love it! (laugh)

Mike: And I know you know what's next. She picked it up. And so, you know, it's because it gets your attention, but then it holds your attention with what's inside. Well, so let's get into it. Teens in particular are at the height of dealing with life through their emotions. How do they learn to control their moods?

Jacqui: Well, that's the problem is we don't learn, right? That is not something that we're taught typically. Like you go to school for, you know, you graduated as a senior. Is there any class really that teaches you about your emotion, about how your mind works?

Jacqui: Not really. They might teach the biological aspect of it, but not really about the simplistic way of like, how does your mind work and how do you control it? So what teen learns is how to learn is from media. From watching their friends, their parents, who also did not have the training. So we just perpetuate the cycle of blowing up or repressing our emotion because we don't know how to really deal with the emotion in a healthy way.

Jacqui: And again, the book I Would, but My Damn Mind Won't Let Me. My goal with that is really to help readers to understand how their mind works, how their beliefs are created, how they work together to create their life experiences, and how changing your thoughts. You know, being mindful about what you focus on really change your reality.

Mike: You mentioned the media and I talk about it a lot because we've, it's not just, it's everywhere now and the social media and, and if you work with young people, you can watch their energy just being sapped, right? So you talk about the four beliefs that destroy your confidence... go.

Jacqui: I love it. (laugh) So in working with thousands of clients, you know, I discover that there is really four problems. Regardless of what a client come in to see me for it could be they might know they have low confidence and they come in with that. They might come in because they're struggling with their weight. They have anxiety. Now they're dealing with anger.

Jacqui: They are dealing with grief, you know, they want to stop smoking. No matter what it is, it really boiled down to four disempowering beliefs and we all have them. Whether we're younger or older, whether we're successful or we're struggling, we all have them. And they all come up at different times in different degrees.

Jacqui: Some of us hang on to it a lot longer and live with these four disempowering beliefs as the majority function. And some of us will face it and then we can overcome it a lot quicker. So the four disempowering beliefs are I'm not enough, I'm not worthy, I'm not loved, and I'm not safe. Now, these four beliefs, they like to hang out with each other.

Jacqui: So it's not like I just have one faulty belief, it's usually I have one major and the rest are really kind of, they're brewing, right? And sometimes you have multiple that go hand in hand and they're both really super strong, then that takes your power away and it makes you feel helpless because, you know, if you have a true strong belief of, I'm not good and I'm not loved.

Jacqui: Imagine walking through life with that lens on, and no matter what you do, you're feeling like you're being rejected, that you're not good enough, that nobody wants you to be around, that you can't have those good things in life. I mean, it's a horrible way to be. However, we don't have to live with those false lenses because they are false lenses, and we can definitely go into that.

Mike: Well, yeah, let's, but I want to not back up, but pause for a second. We're talking about your book that's geared to teen girls, but I want you to one more time for all of us listening, tell us the four beliefs again, but for those of you listening, listen as an adult this time. Because, like, this isn't just a teen girl thing.

Mike: What are the four beliefs that destroy your confidence, Jacqui?

Jacqui: Before I go into that again, I'm going to mention this, that even though my book was written for teen girls, when I was practicing as a mindset mentor, it was primarily adult clients.

Mike: Yeah, this is all adult stuff.

Jacqui: It is. Yes, it is. And I would say, you know, I was trying to build my team clientele in the mindset mentoring and it was slow to build, but the adult just flourish because we haven't had this training as teens.

Jacqui: So we need this, right? So the book started out for teen girls, but it got so popular parents requested for teen boys. So I have a teen boy version and then the parents come back and go, well, what about us? We need it too. (laugh) So I actually have an adult version. So that particular book comes in three editions now.

Jacqui: And the four misguided beliefs again are I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy, I'm not loved, and I'm not safe.

Mike: And we have a ton of therapists that listen to this podcast. And I think you just boiled down a lot of our practices, right? With our adult clients into those. And as you said, and that's what I think is important, Jacqui, if you don't learn this as a teen.

Mike: It can carry over into your, I don't know, 70s and 80s, right? (laugh) It can go on your whole life.

Jacqui: For sure. You know, the one thing that blew me away when I got requested for the adult edition of it and I started writing it, it came out, gosh, maybe a year and a half now. So it's a newer edition. I was blown away by how many people in their 70s plus that wrote that bought the book, read the book and write to me and they're like, For the first time, everything makes sense, you know, why wasn't I taught that this would have changed everything about my life, you know. And I got so many emails and messages of gratitude that I would just like on the floor crying (laugh) because it's powerful.

Jacqui: My book is very simple. There's nothing like super genius about it and there's nothing new. I didn't come up with any of this. I just use my experiences and all the learning that I had. And I just created something that make it easy and makes sense for readers.

Mike: We spend a lot of time in these conversations talking about growing up in families, and if you grow up with mental illness or substance use disorder those beliefs that you just laid out are drilled into you at a young age, and then you come into adulthood and form relationships with those self same beliefs.

Mike: So this is pervasive throughout our culture. And now we add to that, as you said, the layer of friends, media, social media. Wow! Overwhelming for young people. Now, you have companion workbooks that go with your books.

Jacqui: I do, because I truly believe in implementation. I mean, most of us, we read something and we get so jazzed.

Jacqui: We're like, Yes, this is the thing! And we forget. And then nothing changes. And then, you know, the negative belief kicks in. Oh, that might have worked for other people, but nothing works for me. Because I'm not good enough. Because I don't deserve this thing. Because, you know, whatever stories that we make up in our mind, And it's only because we didn't implement.

Jacqui: And so for me, I'm really heavy on implementation. So the workbook again, take the concept from the book. And put it in an way that's easy to implement. There's more tools for self care in it. There are all of my journals are coloring pages too.

Mike: I love that.

Jacqui: Because it's a nice calming... (laugh) I had so much fun creating this but it's a nice way to like calm your mind and reset yourself.

Jacqui: And it's a way to pull out your creativity also, which is incredibly helpful to feel really well balanced and happy and excited about yourself and your life. So, and then there is the last part, which is the retraining your mind part, which is 21 days of doing the exact same thing over and over and over again to build that habit.

Jacqui: Now the exact same thing isn't like you do the exact same exact thing, but it's like five things I want you to focus on every single day and it's laid out very simply so that anyone can do this. And the cool thing about, you know, that process is that it retrains the mind. We tend to focus on what didn't go well.

Jacqui: In fact, we focus on what is the worst thing that ever happened today. And then we made that one thing be about the whole day, be about the whole week, be about the whole month. With a 21 day mindset retraining is what went well today? That's something we don't typically focus on, right. And so when you start doing that first, it kind of feels really awkward because you're not used to that.

Jacqui: But as you do it, your mind's like looking every day. You're training your mind to look out for what went well, what should you be grateful for, what surprises you in a positive way, and your mind to start noticing things that you've missed that have always been there.

Mike: That's, you know, that's so interesting you say that.

Mike: We've done some conversations on gratitude, and I find when I talk to people about this, sometimes they... they don't blow me away, blow me off, but they'll say, Oh yeah, but. I'm like, no, this actually works, right. I can't change the news that I'm going to see tonight or the negativity scrolling through social media.

Mike: But I know tons of people. I'm sure you do too, that are now deep diving and swimming in a pool of negativity on a daily basis. How do you help your clients turn away from that negativity that is all around us?

Jacqui: So the first thing is really, you have to understand how the mind works, because if you don't understand that, if you just do a process, when something comes up, it doesn't really help you in the long run.

Jacqui: For example, you know, deep breathing is absolutely amazing. So you might be told whenever you feel stressed out, take a couple of deep breaths. Okay. (laugh) It might help in that second, but then it's back. And now you're more frustrated because nothing works, right? And so in the book, again, I break down in very simple terms, how the mind works and just kind of like a quick, you know big picture of the book. Is basically whatever you think and feel you're telling your mind, this is the experience I want, make sure I have this experience.

Jacqui: Make sure I continue to be in this experience. So, if you are angry about something, and you're thinking, Oh my gosh, I'm so angry, nothing ever goes my way. That's a direct command to your mind. I want to be angry. I want to stay angry. Give me reasons to be angry. So what your subconscious mind will do is, Oh, look around your environment.

Jacqui: And anything that can cause you to be angry or to stay in that anger state, your mind will zoom right in. It's going to amplify it, it's going to personalize it, so that you get to have the experience you just requested. And then not only that, it's going to look in your past, things that could cause you to be angry and angrier.

Jacqui: Oh, bring it right back up, right? Because you know, we've all had this. We have one tiny little argument with a friend about something. And next thing we're like, we're never speaking again, because we just hashed out 20 years of negativity. (laugh) So your subconscious mind will bring up stuff in the past, again, to keep you in the state you just requested.

Jacqui: And there's a bonus, your mind would do more for you, because your mind is there to give you the experience you requested. So it just, again, looked in the environment and focused on the things that caused that anger. It looked in your past, replayed those things, and then it projects into the future. And then it'll create a scenario that haven't even happened and likely not to happen.

Jacqui: But it will create a, you know, a very strong, vivid image of the future where things didn't go your way and you're now even angrier. So you get to be in that state of anger that you requested, and that's the one thing that most people don't understand. We request our emotions. We have the power to choose our emotion.

Jacqui: It might not feel like it, but we do. So one of the things, you know, once you understand how your mind works and you start practicing, one very incredibly simple exercise I have in the book is called Choosing Calm. We have the power to choose our emotion. Let's start choosing calm. So the process is super, super simple.

Jacqui: Anyone can do this. It will work. You just, you know, the only qualification that's required is a want to be calm and a motivation to do the work to get there. Because it's not like I want it and now it happens because I want it. I'm taking steps to do it. I'm staying persistent with it and I have my results, right?

Jacqui: And so the step is. First, recognize whatever it is that you're feeling, because most of us, we don't understand our emotions. We push them away, we pretend they don't exist, we fight them, we were never taught to really understand what our emotions are. So pause for a moment and really think about it. The other problem too with that is most of us have go to emotions.

Jacqui: I'm angry, I'm angry, I'm angry! Well, that's not true if you pause. One time you might truly be angry. And now the time you might be disappointed or hurt or a disillusion, you know, or upset or irritated or hungry. I mean, there's just so many different things that we're experiencing. But if you label something, one big label over and over again, it's going to feel like that is who you are.

Jacqui: This is a problem I have. Versus this is how I'm reacting to something that I'm going through. So taking that pause, recognizing what emotion you're experiencing is definitely the first step. The second step is deciding, and that is telling your subconscious mind, even though I feel insert your emotion, I'm going to use anger, even though I feel angry, I choose to be calm.

Jacqui: And I do recommend saying that three times just to kind of like reset your mind because your mind haven't heard this from you. Your mind is like calm. What is that? So I choose to be calm. I choose to be calm. I choose to be calm. And then repeatedly, I am calm. I am calm. I am calm. And do that in as gentle as calming a voice as you can.

Jacqui: You can do it out loud. You can do it in your head. Here's the magic of all this. As you're saying, I am calm. Imagine yourself as vividly as you can bring in all your senses. See it. Touch it. Taste it. Hear it. What calming is for you because calm is different from person to person. So for me, calming is getting a massage.

Jacqui: So when I do this exercises, I'm on the table, the music is nice and relaxing. There's warm, there's aroma therapy, you know, there's my muscle releasing. I am replaying my massage in my mind because what you're doing is you're basically saying to your mind, subconscious mind, even though I'm angry, I choose to be calm, calm look like this.

Jacqui: This is the experience I want, bring it to me. How clear are you when you're doing that?

Mike: You know, that's the same process really successful athletes use, right? And they've trained their own mind to do that. Talk about the phrase that you, did you create the phrase, cause I saw it trademarked, Peaceful Confidence?

Jacqui: I don't know if it's, it shouldn't be trademarked.

Mike: Well, I saw it in your book, it said that. Talk about it.

Jacqui: I didn't trademark it. If you really want it, that's fine with me. The whole goal with Peaceful Confidence is really building this, this powerful self worth. You know who you are. You embody self worth.

Jacqui: You know, you know, what you're capable of, what you're not capable of. And you'll love yourself despite all of that, right? It's about feeling good about yourself, feeling confident that no matter what it is you face, you have the ability to overcome it. It's about learning and growing and just loving the heck out of the journey.

Mike: I really, really like that a lot. And that doesn't mean you don't have the other side too. You also talk in your book, especially the one about girls, of the inner mean girl and not embracing it, but how do you turn that into a positive? Well what is the inner mean girl and how do you turn it into a positive?

Jacqui: So the inner mean girl, which is a fun phrase for the book it's your subconscious mind. So inner mean guy, inner mean, you know Mike, inner mean Jacqui. (laugh)

Mike: You want to get back at that person, right?

Jacqui: Yes. I actually have a podcast called Stop the Bully Within. I haven't have any new episodes lately for years now, actually, but it's about that is about the inner bully that live inside all of us.

Jacqui: So when you read my book, you'll understand that the subconscious mind isn't really your enemy. It might come out as the inner me person as the bully that beats you down telling you not good enough, but it's doing it out of love. And that's kind of like, huh? (laugh) Your subconscious mind was created to protect you, right?

Jacqui: It's there to protect you against physical danger and emotional danger, but it's also... think of it as a young child between the ages of zero to seven years old, because that's where the majority of your subconscious programming is developed. So you have this little child who loves you so much and just want the best out of you, but it's terrifying that you're going to get hurt again because that little version of you experienced all your pain, all your disappointment, all your hurt, all your doubts, all your shame, and it hurts so much.

Jacqui: It never wants you to re-experience it again. And its job is to protect you from that. So here's your subconscious mind trying to protect you, except it does it in a way that hurts you, but it doesn't know it hurts you because the end result is met and that is avoidance. Because if you avoid that thing, then you don't put yourself at risk, therefore, you don't experience that hurt, right?

Jacqui: So, for example, let's say, you know, you want to go for that promotion. We're going to talk about adults now. You know, you want to go for that promotion, and you have the qualification, you have the experience, and you know you can do this job better than anybody else can. But that fear inside, what if, what if I go for the interview and I get rejected?

Jacqui: And everybody on my team know that. You know, how are they going to look at me? What if I get this job and nobody listens to me because they never really listen to me right now? Or whatever is really more than I can handle, that's all your subconscious mind talking. And that sounds pretty terrible, right?

Jacqui: But all your subconscious mind is doing is like, please, Mike, stay in this little box we're in. It's nice and cozy and warm and no one's gonna hurt us in here. If we put a foot outside of the box. We might get hurt. So stay in the box with me. And it's going to use all these fear tactics. It's going to remind you of past failures, going to project potential failures into your future in an effort for you to stay exactly the way you are.

Jacqui: And so as fear comes up and you don't do that thing and you stay right where you are, your subconscious mind says, yes, I saved Mike again! I love him so much! I saved him! So you know, I think understanding that a subconscious mind is actually your best friend, that the person that loves you the most is just going about it in a way that is not helpful, really helps a lot of people because a lot of people are terrified of that inner voice, because they think that inner voice is there to harm them.

Mike: Well, and as you said earlier, to start this, when you step out of that little box is when you can really succeed.

Jacqui: Exactly. You can't succeed staying exactly the same, right? But to your subconscious mind's program, I mean, it literally has this program in its mind. In its operating system, I guess. Change is scary.

Jacqui: Change is dangerous. If you try to change, you will get hurt. Not might get hurt. Now, I'm not saying that's the truth. I'm saying that is the subconscious mind's programming. And so if it believes that if you try to change, you will get hurt and its job is to protect you. It's going to do everything it can so that you stay the same.

Jacqui: And that's why a lot of us who are struggling with whatever it is we're struggling, whether it's, you know, homelessness, addiction anxiety, depression, we feel stagnant. We feel like we're stuck in this routine forever. It's because you are, we are. (laugh) Our mind, we try to get out, our mind pushes right back.

Jacqui: We try to get out, our mind pushes right back. And the more time we try to get out and be pushed back like that, we develop a stronger belief of this is who I am. This is my identity. Versus this is what I'm dealing with right now, and I have the capability of moving beyond it.

Mike: You know, Jacqui, for those of you listening, this isn't just somebody who wrote the book, this is somebody who lived it. On your website, and I love stuff like this. There are several pictures and I'll let you go with this. You know, first one of them is you with your son, and I assume you're 16, 17 at the time. Then there's another one of you graduating with your son. And then there's one, and then there's one with a big smile of him graduating.

Jacqui: Yes.

Mike: That's, that's what you mean by stepping out of the box and taking the chance.

Jacqui: Exactly. Exactly. Because, you know, like if there was a vote back then for the most likely person to fail miserably in life, that would be me. But that's the thing is you are not your past. You are not your circumstances.

Jacqui: You are what you decide for yourself.

Mike: Wow. Okay, stop. There's no better place. There's no better statement to leave it at than that. Now, I didn't mention it in the middle of this because those of you who listen, and if you're a first time listener, thank you. You know that we have links to Jacqui's website, her books, her podcast, linked to this podcast.

Mike: I would invite you all to to listen to it. To go there and to order the books. They're wonderful adults, kids alike.

Mike: For those of you listening, we always invite you to listen when you're able. We're going to let you go until we talk to you next time. Stay safe and get out of your own way.