Standby

[Upbeat Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome everybody. This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction, brought to you by Westwords Consulting, the Kenosha County Substance Use Disorder Coalition, and by a grant from the state of Wisconsin's Dose Reality Real Talks reminding you that opioids are powerful drugs and that one pill can kill. I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: Imagine sitting in a jail cell looking up at the communal television and seeing your mugshot come up. Imagine also that the television station showing that mugshot was also your employer. That's the opening few paragraphs of the terrific book of our guest today, Beth McDonough. Beth is an author, a former TV crime reporter who chronicles her addiction and recovery in her fabulous memoir, Standby. It's an incredible story of redemption. Welcome, Beth.

Beth: Hi, Mike. Thanks for having me.

Mike: It's just a great book. It's such an easy read and you just it's a not put downer, you just keep going. The first, can I quote, I'll quote the first line in your book.

Beth: Yeah.

Mike: Is she breathing? (laughs) Okay. And that's where?

Beth: Yeah. So that was said inside of a drunk tank, a holding cell at the Hennepin County Jail in Minnesota.

Mike: Wow.

Beth: Yup.

Mike: And in a world that makes things seem like computer simulations, there's a bunch of them. The story that preceded your arrest on the news while you watched in jail was of?

Beth: It was of a train wreck.

Mike: Come on.

Beth: You can't make this up.

Mike: No.

Beth: So obviously when I started writing the book, the first chapter wrote itself honestly. And what's crazy about that too is. I was actually covering that train wreck the day before.

Mike: No!

Beth: I was out on the scene covering it all day long and then, when I wake up 36 hours later in jail and I'm seeing that on TV and I'm like, my eyes are trying to focus 'cause I'm coming out of a blackout.

Beth: And then. I see the train wreck and then the next story is my mugshot that popped up and that'll jolt you're right out of your jail cot.

Mike: Well and the women in the jail didn't recognize you.

Beth: No. And they had no idea who was lying close to them. And they're talking about it as if I wasn't there. They didn't know who I was at the time. And I remember one of them saying my blood alcohol level was 0.24, which at that time is three times the legal limit for driving in Minnesota. In my head, that was pretty high. And according to the law as well, but then you hear the women say, 0.24 or she's a lightweight.

Mike: Yeah.

Beth: And then I'm starting to absorb and this is as bad as I think it is. I know where I am. And and then the chatter kept going. And of course then they looked over at me and said, what are you doing here? How did you get here? 'Cause that's what you talk about in jail besides watching television.

Beth: And I said DUI and they said, your first? And I'm like, nope, it's my second. And they said, oh, you're gonna be okay? And I said, oh no, I am definitely not okay. And I knew that because just one year prior I got my first DUI and my boss at the, and I was working for Fox News in Minneapolis.

Beth: And my boss at the time, who I have great respect for and a really good working relationship with, he offered me help.

Mike: Mm-hmm.

Beth: After I got in trouble and he said, if you need help, you need treatment, we'll send you wherever you wanna go. We wanna help you get better and get back to a healthy life.

Beth: And I just. You know no one wants to grow up to be an alcoholic or certainly labeled an addict, and I couldn't bring myself because the shame just kept me so stuck. I couldn't bring myself to accept it or even acknowledge it, to be honest. In my head I was like, I'm a strong person. Look at all this stuff I've seen and done in this world, right?

Beth: Like I've even survived cancer a couple of times. I got this. And 'cause you get to be very strong, you get a backbone in my industry covering mass disasters for a living and I thought I might be able to get control of it. But what we all learned the hard way is you don't control alcoholic, it controls you.

Beth: In a world of relationships, alcohol is a taker. It doesn't negotiate. And I was offered help the first time, didn't take it. My boss said, if this ever happened again, this is it. You will be fired. So when I woke up in jail the second time, I had that dread just screaming through my body.

Mike: Blackouts are an interesting phenomenon and we don't talk about them enough, you didn't realize that you'd even been in an accident the second time.

Beth: No. I didn't, and thank you for bringing that up, because to this day, it's almost 17 years later now. I still have no memory of that accident.

Beth: I have no memory of the first time I got a DUI, I hit a panel of mailboxes right outside of my home. No memory of that. No memory of the accident. I know what I pieced together from police reports and my attorney of course, and going to court. And, it's just amazing what blackout drinking does.

Beth: And for me, if I even had one glass of maybe wine or a beer, people said I would go from zero to 100 pretty quickly. And I'm like, why is that? Because they could drink the same amount and it doesn't affect them. Like it did affect me. And I did go to treatment the second time. And what I learned in treatment, which is something I never knew before, is that women are 30% more susceptible to the inebriating effects of alcohol.

Beth: 'Cause we have, of course, less water in our bodies and less of an enzyme. And men have more water in your bodies, and so the alcohol dissolves faster. And so I'm like, okay, so that helps to explain how I go from zero to 100 so quickly.

Mike: But even then you rationalize things. I like the line where your lawyer says it's time to go to rehab.

Mike: And your answer is, do you think it'll help my case? You're not even thinking after all of this, I got a problem. I can still get a handle on it.

Beth: I went into damage control mode, and part of that being a reporter, 'cause I solve people's problems for a living. And a little part of that, but a major part of denial.

Beth: And also what on earth was I thinking, coming out of a blackout. Are you kidding me? And I wasn't hearing what my attorney was really saying, right? I'm like, damage control, how can I not go to jail again or prison or fines? Now my attorney was calling me out because he'd picked me up the first time as well.

Beth: And the second time he actually parked about 10 blocks away from the jail. So when I came out and I asked the deputy who was releasing me, I know there's a back door, and I said, any chance you're gonna let me out the back door? And she was like, nope. I'm like, okay, I made a living out of getting perp walks at people and I'm the perp walk now.

Beth: Sure enough, I come out and everybody's there. Even like Inside Edition was there.

Mike: Oh.

Mike: And these are people you know.

Beth: Yeah. People I know I have hung out with socially. I know their kids. Yes. Yeah. So that was really tough. And that's also part of taking your lumps.

Mike: Yeah. But you know, shame is one thing, but shame on steroids is something else.

Mike: Having your picture blasted across the medium that you worked in. Just talk about that for a minute. 'Cause shame is a huge part of this disease.

Beth: It is. And if there's one thing that people ask me about most now even on social media, people looking for help is how did I overcome the shame?

Mike: Yeah.

Beth: Because you know it, boy, it kept me sick and stuck. And in my head, I'm like, it's one thing to cover shame. It's another thing to be shame.

Mike: Yeah.

Beth: And when you look at yourself and you start to reconstruct all the damage that you've done and the people you've hurt, and I blew up my life in spectacular fashion.

Beth: And maybe the good and bad news out of it is I didn't have anyone to blame. I had myself to blame. And that's really good because I'm a big believer in accountability. And the shame is just, you don't wanna be an alcoholic. Nobody wants to be an addict. Nobody wants to go be reminded of our most awful moments all the time.

Beth: And that's what shame does. It keeps you backed up in that corner. And for me, what worked was going, you know what? I did this to all of you. You didn't do it to me. I own it. I accept it and got a mountain to climb to attempt to get to the other side of this, and I was never a good quitter, which wasn't great when you're an alcoholic. It's really good professionally, but not so good when you're an alcoholic. And so I had to reset my mind to go, alright Beth, you're not a quitter. You've done this. You got yourself into this, you've got a disease.

Beth: When I've had cancer, the doctor wasn't just hey, live a healthy life maybe you won't get cancer. And so I also reframe my brain like that. 'Cause I'm like, okay, I had cancer, so I had surgery and radiation. I have alcoholism, I've got a disease. Beth, you have to do something about it. You need to go get help. Your attorney's telling you, everyone around you, and look where you are.

Beth: All the signs are there. You need help. Own it and go get help from the people that are experts.

Mike: And then you have to take a look at the journey, right? So let's go backwards for a second. How did you get there? You show a lot of respect towards your mom and dad.

Beth: Oh yeah.

Mike: They did the best they could. They weren't without issues themselves. And I also like that you called Jimmy, your stepdad.

Beth: Yeah.

Mike: Your dad.

Beth: Oh, thank you.

Mike: Because he was your dad, right?

Beth: Oh my gosh. He was my dad. I, he was my dad, my best friend. Both my parents were, I love them dearly. And if there's anything that'll choke me up, it'll be that. So my biological father abandoned us when I was a baby, and all the family says he was abusive.

Beth: He had alcohol and drug issues but more severe mental health issues. And in comes, my mom meets this wonderful man, Jimmy and in church of all places. And we had just moved from LA to Oklahoma for a change of scenery. And that's quite a culture shock.

Mike: (laughs) That's a change.

Beth: And Jimmy was just, he was a big kid as a man and he willingly took on my mom and three daughters that weren't his. In the world of a model stepdad, like he was just that guy. He had a big heart, he was fun. He was only five four, but boy could he, even with the look in his face, he never had a temper.

Beth: He never spanked us, but boy, he could give you a look that could cut you down to size pretty quickly. So even though he was small in stature, he was just. He was a really great dad. My parents had begged me when I was younger too. Don't ever drink. Don't ever drink.

Beth: But we never talked about why. And it turns out when you reconstruct your family history my mother's parents, so both my grandparents died from alcoholism. Then of course my biological father, and then I had a sister who died from a drug overdose later in life. And I watched my parents deal with her from a very early age and hardcore stuff, really hardcore stuff.

Beth: And I thought to myself, you know what? Whatever they're doing, just do the opposite. That does not look like it's a good time. And my parents had always begged me, don't ever drink. They didn't drink. It just wasn't a thing in our house. The thing in the house was hardcore street drugs that my parents dealt with.

Beth: And as I went to college in Oklahoma and then in news, when you work the night shift, what's open at 11 or midnight? Bars. So we would go out and have drinks afterwards, decompress, blow off some steam, maybe in the hopes you don't take home what you saw that day. So I started out as a party girl, as a social thing.

Beth: And then I would say by 2005, 2007. It definitely became a problem, not just a party girl, but certainly a big problem.

Mike: Yeah, you were doing all those things that you hear people talking about. You'd go up to the bar and grab drinks for everybody, but have a couple yourself. So you were drinking more than people thought you were drinking.

Beth: Yes, absolutely.

Mike: And then you would leave, you'd leave parties before you went over the edge. 'Cause you didn't, you had a public face to present.

Beth: And I didn't want people to see me like that, and I didn't also want people to start talking and whispering behind... like, you know, does Beth have a drinking problem?

Beth: So after my first DUI, I would, if I went out with people, I'd cut myself off at three drinks. Which we all know that's not even smart to get in the car and go drive, but that's alcoholic stinking thinking. And so I would go home and finish drinking. As if that wasn't enough.

Beth: And I would drink until honestly I blacked out. And yeah people didn't realize how much I was drinking 'cause I would take the rest of the party home so they wouldn't see it.

Beth: And then, still wake up, go run five miles in the morning, go work my 10 or 12 hour shift and to try and keep the appearances.

Mike: You were training for a marathon, right?

Beth: Yes.

Mike: When you got the diagnosis, but you weren't feeling good. And then all of a sudden they found what? Thyroid cancer?

Beth: Yes. Thyroid cancer.

Mike: And another incident in the book that seems surrealistic. Your mom called you home and you both said, Hey, I got cancer about the same moment.

Beth: It was, and I think that speaks to how close we were. And my mom was just, she was everything. I loved her. She was great. And when I called her to tell her. And she's telling me she has colon cancer. And I'm like, I've got thyroid cancer. And both of us would drop everything to be there for the other and neither of us could go anywhere.

Beth: We were having surgery about the same time. And then I had to, after my surgery, I had to go through seven days of radiation. And back in that day, so early two thousands, they lock you in a room and fill you full of radiation. And you can't be around anyone for seven days except for healthcare worker who comes in with, I call it like an astronaut suit, do the geiger meister on you, and until the radiation gets low enough that you can go out in public again and you won't cause cancer for other people. And so we, because my mother was in the hospital, we would talk a lot every day during all of that too, and get each other through it.

Mike: Train for a marathon. Getting cancer. Mom dealing with it, watching a sister go over the deep end withdrawal, that's not enough. Bottoms are bottoms and you scooted through several of them.

Beth: Oh, you are so right. And I did scoot through several of them, and there were several times I was pulled over that I didn't get DUIs.

Mike: Yeah.

Beth: That should have been a warning to me. And there's a really a good example on chapter 42. I like to say, if, I did something embarrassing, it's in the book, but chapter 42 will take the cake. Because I was covering this incredibly high profile trial and something horrific happened. I don't wanna go into great detail so people can read it in the book because then, it can be pretty startling.

Mike: Yeah.

Beth: But needless to say, that in one night of drinking when everybody else stepped away from the bar, and I didn't, a whole bunch of things happened.

Beth: Some of which again, I don't remember, but I can tell you I ended up in the ER in the middle of the night. And that is so shocking because I also knew that the next day this big verdict was coming down and I was contracted with all the Fox TV stations in the US to do live shots all day long. I was contracted with CNN to do live shots all day long, and here I was in the hospital at three in the morning getting parts of my myself replaced.

Beth: Because I had to show up on TV at 8:00 AM and go for it for at least 12 hours. And I couldn't let anyone know what happened. And so anyway, it just, and you would've thought something like that, that I did to myself would've been enough to get my attention yet again, just bang me on the head.

Beth: And it wasn't because. I don't know if it's because I solved it. I fixed it in that moment. Like we tend to do post drinking. A nd I was worried after that. 'Cause I was like, Beth, good god! Good God! But if I could stopped drinking on my own, I would've too.

Mike: Yeah.

Beth: Like when you do some things to yourself, you're like, ugh. When is enough? And I still had some more ground to cover.

Mike: Beth, you picked a career that, and we all know this, when you see somebody on your local news station, you're not gonna see 'em forever. For the most part.

Mike: You picked a career that was bounced you from city to city, which really limits your long-term support network, right? And then you were covering stuff that was pretty horrific. You covered flight 93 and 9/11 in Pennsylvania. Tons of murder trials, tons of kidnappings and so you drank the trauma away.

Beth: Yes. And the Oklahoma City bombing. Who was covering that? Yeah. I say this with some levity. My coworkers used to say, if there is death, then there's Beth.

Mike: Wow.

Beth: Because my contract was murder, death, destruction, mayhem. Any mass disaster I was on the go team that would go to those situations.

Beth: And it's interesting. I always love telling the story of survivors. On how people go through things and get to the other side. That always fascinated me. Lo and behold, maybe it was a cautionary tale for me as well, and when you're in the thick of it, you can't see yourself and how you are handling it or reacting.

Beth: And at the time I thought I was handling it okay. But what you learn with a lot of therapy too, is that you absorb all this trauma you cover. In addition to whatever's going on in your life, right? You absorb all the trauma. And, after being at the 35 W Bridge and the George Floyd riots and I was shot in the hip, all of these things, you absorbed the trauma from it.

Beth: And I did not handle it well, and I didn't even deal with it at the time 'cause I was just going from, one hot spot to the next. You just keep the train going if you will.

Mike: One of the things you say in the book that I think we also don't talk a lot about is that in therapy you learn that you have what the therapist called (finger quotes) "delayed reaction".

Beth: Yeah.

Mike: I think a lot of us have that. We cope with the moment of trauma fine, and then all of a sudden a month, two months, six months later, it affects us, but everybody else has moved on, so we can't even talk about it.

Beth: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for addressing that. I actually just said yesterday, I'm having a little delayed reaction with something.

Beth: And I can share with you what it was. So I'll tell you this story and then I'll backtrack for a moment. A few weeks ago I went on a ladies trip with friends to Las Vegas and two of the friends who I had just signed my book for and that I had known for 20 years and they know my story.

Beth: They went up to the bar to get a drink, and when they came back from the bar at the pool, they said do you want some of this? And my body just, I was horrified. My body almost locked up. And I was like, do I want what? And they said, oh, it's just a Piña coladait's not that strong. I can't even taste the alcohol in it.

Beth: And my whole head, I'm like, I can't even believe we're having this conversation. And I said, no thank you. And the other friend says, oh, do you want a sip of mine? And she had a different alcoholic drink thinking that it's the Piña colada that's turning me off. And I was just, no.

Beth: And I said, I'm gonna step away. I'm going to go back. We were going to a concert that night. I'm gonna go back to the hotel, get ready, I'll meet you guys at the concert. And another friend that was with me, I was telling her this, and then I burst into tears. But that was the last moment that I had with, besides getting really upset.

Beth: Yesterday earlier this week, it hit me, it just hit me. I'm like, oh my God, what a level of betrayal and, or people trying to attempt or they wanna keep me sick and keep me in the corner, you know where they are, maybe. And, dealing with all the trauma that happens in anybody's lives. And this is where I really started picking up my drinking was my mother died.

Beth: Very unexpectedly. And in, within one month of her dying, my dad had to have quadruple heart bypass. And then I was getting a divorce, which I wanted. That's all. Oh, and I found out my contract wasn't being renewed by NBC 'cause they were being bought out by Comcast. So you need to just throw all that in there.

Beth: And after going through some therapy, the therapist says you really have a severe case of delayed reaction. And I think it's from covering disasters for so much of my life, you have to go in and you've gotta take care of a lot of things very quickly and deal with people's emotions and mine is deadlines and everything else, the newsroom demands of you.

Beth: And so in the next day, you're gonna follow up and keep going. And yeah, I do tend to subconsciously push it off. And then when it hits, boy, it hits.

Mike: Like a lot of stories, and especially with addiction, sometimes you covered the, what'd you say 35 West Bridge in Minneapolis?

Beth: Yes.

Mike: Did I get it? And for those of you don't remember, look it up. It was horrific. But sometimes bridges can't be rebuilt and the, it was heartbreaking when Jimmy, when you found out that, when Jimmy found out that you were an alcoholic.

Beth: Oh, it was, it was devastating. That was, that is the one thing that really still sticks with me.

Beth: When you disappoint one of the people that you love most on Earth, that really sticks with me and I was trying to deal with that while I was in therapy and still in treatment at the time. And with my therapist. And she said a couple of things to me that at the time I was like, why would you say that to me? That's so hurtful. But one of the things she said was, it's probably gonna be a blessing that your dad is shutting you out, and at that time I was just like no, it's not. He's like my person. 'Cause my mother had already passed by this time. And then as I was leaving therapy and, I sent him a letter and sent him an email and tried to contact and he just, he was not having it.

Beth: I think his heart was so broken. And he also still viewed alcoholism as a character fault. Not as a disease, different generation. He was well up into his eighties at this time and he honestly just didn't have a lot of experience with the alcoholism. And I always lived in different states because I was moving. So he also didn't get to see me daily, in and out to see that I really was taking some steps to get healthy again to improve my situation. And he just, he couldn't get past it. And, so many phone calls. And then when I got out of treatment, I tried to call him for Christmas and he wouldn't take that call at all. It, yeah that one broke my heart. It absolutely broke my heart, and I think it still drives me to this day.

Mike: I think you hit the nail on the head. We've done such a crummy job with this disease, with being a disease, right? That your dad has a reaction that he has. Your friends at the pool think, what's the big deal? People don't understand what's involved in recovery, and you've done an amazing job of reclaiming yourself.

Mike: So there is life after the spotlight, right?

Beth: Oh my goodness. There is life after the spotlight. And actually one of my friends asked me the last week, in fact, really, is alcoholism a disease? And I'm like yes. And so I feel like it's incumbent upon us to educate. And I said back in 1956, the CDC, determined alcoholism to be a disease.

Beth: And I said, not just that in 2007, Congress passed a bill acknowledging alcoholism as a disease. Yes, it's a disease. Insurance, most of the time will cover treatment. There's a reason for that. It's a disease, and when people have a heart attack or Alzheimer's, we aren't like, Hey, get in there and, just change your attitude or your behavior.

Beth: You have to take some action. And boy, have I been through the recovery mill. I mentioned this in the book. I literally lost everything!

Mike: Yeah, you did.

Beth: I was looking for a bridge to live under, and so you gotta get resourceful. No one would hire me because I was such damaged goods. Not even the mall, the grocery store, I tried. And so I started walking neighbor's dogs for a living to make some extra cash while they were at work.

Beth: I'd go walk their dog and pick up their poop, honestly. And it's about eating humble pie and going, okay, I've got to pivot here. And if I open up a dog walking business and daycare, it will allow me time outside of that to go to meetings that I want to continue, aftercare, manage my stress.

Beth: 'Cause TV news is, it's a thing. (laughs) And I loved it at the time. So I did, I went through the recovery and I had a sober roommate for a little bit, which was one of the best things I ever did. Honestly, people warned us against it. 'Cause we were both kind of fresh, but we were both dedicated to our sobriety and that was immensely helpful. Because whenever you have a weak moment or you just need to talk with someone, there's such a level of understanding there as well.

Beth: And the meetings were I'm very grateful. I know sometimes people have trouble finding meetings that they connect with and the first one I went to whoof hallelujah, was it was fabulous and it was down the street from my house, which is great 'cause I couldn't drive, I lost my car too. The state took my car and seized it. And then sold it at auction. So I could walk to this church every day at noon, go to this meeting, and everyone in there was just spot on in what they had to say. And I was nervous going, like anybody is their first time. I was nervous and of course I knew everybody was gonna know me and they knew all my dirty laundry 'cause it was already out there.

Beth: And these people just welcomed me in with the nodding look, they'd been there, done that. And one gentleman, like a grandpa age came and sat down next to me with a box of Kleenex and he said, how are you feeling today? And I said, I feel terrible. And he goes, good, never forget that feeling.

Beth: And even now, that still motivates me. When you hear the whole reason we go right is to hear people who are raw going through it. So people got to hear me. And then you hear people who have 17 years. You're like, how on earth? You sit there and you listen and you learn.

Mike: And for those of you watching this and listening, you have to understand something. Beth just kind of cruised through that. When she says she walked to the meetings, that's 'cause she wasn't allowed to drive, so she could have broke the law, but you didn't.

Beth: No.

Mike: And it wasn't as though you were walking in Tampa, Florida. This was Minneapolis and it was winter.

Beth: Oh my gosh. It was December. There was like five feet of snow on the ground and I whipped out all my winter gear. Thank goodness I had that from covering winter storms. And I looked like an astronaut walking to the meeting every day. And maybe sometimes people were generous enough to give me a ride home. And when they didn't, I also understood that, 'cause that's part of the lessons. And even just that after a meeting, sometimes people would invite me to go have a cup of coffee at the local coffee shop.

Beth: I actually couldn't afford a cup of coffee.

Mike: Right.

Beth: So I wouldn't go. And then sometimes people would offer, and that was like winning the lottery that day. But those are, yeah, I lost my car. I lost my license for a year, and anywhere that I went, it was gonna have to be on foot or the public bus.

Mike: Recovery's a marathon, right? So you were training for it.

Beth: Yes. There you go. I was training for the marathon. Yes. It's so true.

Mike: I was curious as I read it, 'cause you don't talk about it much, but so now you wrote the book and it's terrific.

Beth: Thank you.

Mike: And by the way, you all know that there's links to both Beth's stuff as well as the book at the blurb of the podcast.

Mike: Have you bumped in to former colleagues? And how have you been received as, 'cause you were just telling me you're now on TV stations again promoting the book. What's that been like to go back?

Beth: I think I was hesitant. It's taken me, 16, 17 years to get this out. I was hesitant because, for a long time you could look at me as either famous or infamous.

Beth: And I thought how am I gonna go about this to really, my goal is to show other people how I did it. Maybe this works for them. And, it's awkward for me to pitch the book, but the book is where the message is. And then I'm like, okay Beth, you just eat your pride.

Beth: Because it's bigger than you. And I just feel like when you go through all of this and you've had access to some medical experts and therapists and information that I've learned and maybe some tips that could help people through some of their hard days. I just feel like maybe it's the reporter in me, but I need to share that with people.

Mike: Yeah.

Beth: To go, okay, here, this worked for me and maybe this works for you. Chemo doesn't work for everyone. But maybe this does for you. And so I just wanted to put it out there and I had to make peace with myself going, you're gonna get hate mail. You're gonna get people who are like, why are you out on the road driving?

Beth: And I did get one of those emails and I'm like I've had my driver's license back for 17 years now, so I was a little bit nervous how it would be received, but I just feel like the world is so much more open now to messy stories. 'Cause we all have issues in our life.

Beth: Whether it's mental health or, abuse or, work related stuff. Money with the government shutdown, everybody's got issues now, and I feel like people are just more open and receptive. So I thought this is, it feels like the time is right. And I also wanted to make sure I was grounded enough in my sobriety that I had something to share with people that, I wasn't just coming in hot after getting out of treatment.

Beth: I wanted to have some experience and really put some of these ideas and suggestions to work that did work for me and the people I am... I told you I was just in Milwaukee recently and with one of my old bosses, and he's a boss out there, and it was just, it was the greatest day to see each other again.

Beth: And I had a book signing in Minneapolis. Many of my old coworkers came.

Mike: Awesome.

Beth: And it was such a wonderful reunion and they were so uplifting. Even one of my old bosses and I've since mended fences with the boss who fired me. 'Cause I wanted him to know, and this is really important I think. He did for me what I couldn't do for myself, he saved my life. In the moment, I know we both felt really crappy, but he actually saved my life. And by saving my life, he's given me a chance to help other people. And that's, how this is paying it forward.

Mike: Awesome. I encourage you all to get the book and to read it. It won't take you long to get through it. It's riveting.

Mike: Beth, thanks so much for sharing your book, your recovery, your experience. You're very strong. There are of course links, right. You know that. For those of you listening, watching, we hope you find hope, courage, support, wherever you are, is always thanks for listening. Be safe, be healthy, and step into the spotlight every now and then.