Stepping Up, Being a Father

[Jaunty Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome, everybody. This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction, brought to you by Westwords Consulting and the Kenosha County Substance Use Disorder Coalition. I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: A little while ago, we had a great conversation with David Comer, a supervisor for the Direct Assistance to Dads, or DAD Project.

Mike: The DAD Project is a free, voluntary program that connects a fatherhood involvement specialist from the City of Milwaukee's Health Department with new or expecting fathers, and is the only home visiting program just for dads in the state of Wisconsin. At the end of the conversation, I asked David if one of the dads would like to have a conversation with us, and of course, he and our guest today, James Murdock Jr., thought it would be a great idea. James is one of the fathers in the DAD Project program. Welcome, James.

James: Welcome.

Mike: Well, I'm so glad you could do this. Tell us a little bit about how you became involved with the DAD Project.

James: Well, to be honest, I was basically looking for a change in my life from being stressed out from my struggle that I go through every year where I feel like I'm a failure at life.

James: So, me doing little researches on programs and looking for something to change that cycle. I was introduced to Tony Higgins, which is my caseworker. And he helped me by coming in, basically telling them what I was going through and basically giving me advice on, Oh, you came to the great program.

James: So basically I talked to him and told him everything I was going through and everything that I'm going through is not existing no more. It's basically going way better than when I first started.

Mike: So talk about that. What were some of the struggles you were going through?

James: I was dealing with my mental health, as well as I was dealing with two kids being born, well, there was two women that was pregnant at the same time, and I had to figure out how am I supposed to do this, I feel like I was alone. So I'm like, Man, I need somebody to help me, help me, help me.

James: So for some reason, I don't remember how I got Tony Higgin's number, but I ended up with it. And it's like, it's been part of my life since I was born. Like it was meant for me to be a part of this program. So when I went there, I told him everything that I was dealing with, with two kids on a way I ain't had kids in 10 years.

James: So me preparing for two kids by two different women. I had to figure out like, how am I supposed to do this? Especially deal with my mental health, especially try to find me a job or start school or do this and get resources for both kids at the same time. So Tony Higgins basically helped me throughout the process, introduced me to other dads and everything else that I needed to get me on the road. And ever since then, I've been doing great.

Mike: That's great. You know, I'll say this upfront. We do list the information for the DAD project at the end of the podcast, because I think sometimes James, people don't know where to go. You said you don't remember. I don't know how you got the information, but there's good stuff out there if we can only find it.

James: Uh huh, ya.

Mike: When he got you hooked up, what did you expect would happen? And how did it turn out for you? I mean, what did you think would happen and what really happened?

James: Well, I've been in a lot of programs. I've been in construction programs. I've been in other programs where they help with getting skills for construction and stuff like that.

James: I thought it was just going to be another dead end program.

Mike: Thats a lot of them.

James: Yeah, it's not, it's a program that they stick by your side. They don't give up on you. They make sure you shine. So basically I've been with them and what I expected from them was another dead end. But what I got from them was a lot.

James: I'm able to spend more time with my kids in a way that they know that I'm there. I'm able to focus on my mental health and deal with my housing situation as well as dealing with education and anything that I need. I can reach out to my caseworker and get information on it here. Help me with it.

James: So basically, I feel like I got a partnership.

Mike: What did you learn that surprised you?

James: The fact that this program is all about dads. Like, all I hear about is this women, Oh, you gotta be a woman, or you gotta do this, and you gotta do that. I went through the Women's Care Center to get help, and during that time, I was dealing with my child, and she had some issues with her mother and stuff like that, so she was placed in my custody.

James: And the Women's Care Center, they wanted proof. They wanted me to do this. They wanted me to do that just to get proof of this child is in my custody to receive the help. And I'm like, man, what other things can I do? Like what other programs can I do? So I basically, the DADs Project been helping me with any resources that I need for my kids since they've been born.

Mike: How old are your kids now?

James: I have a 11 year old that's about to be 11, July 8th. I have two one year olds, and then I have a two month old, and then they all girls, four girls, and y'all gonna be the first to know, I got one on the way.

Mike: (chuckle) Did you have sisters growing up?

James: Yes, I have a twin sister, and I got a little sister, and I got a big sister.

Mike: Well, so at least you knew a little bit about girls.

James: Yeah. It's just, man, I'm waiting on this teenage years. I'm about to hit the teenage years. And then all of a sudden I got two babies, three babies. So it's like, it was different. It's different. Cause I ain't had kids in 10 years. I'm like, everything changed with the hospitals and all the things that you got to do.

James: Like you got to sign a paper at the hospital, but then again, you got to go to the courthouse, just establish paternity, all types of things you got to do. Just because it was different. Like, my first child, I signed a paternity, and my name was on the birth certificate.

Mike: And now you gotta prove it.

James: Yeah.

Mike: You know, James, a lot of us, myself included didn't have a dad while growing up or had a poor one. And so when I became a father, I'm like, what what? How do you do this? Did you, did you have a dad while growing up?

James: No, my actual father wasn't around until I was 17. I was brought up by my mother and I did have a stepfather.

James: So I kind of knew what it was like to have a father in my life because my stepfather stepped up to the plate.

Mike: Awesome.

James: So my father, he didn't come back till I was 17. So basically the bond that and him has, I'm fighting for that father son bond.

Mike: Yeah.

James: I reach out for him. I try to get that bond.

James: He go through his own issues and stuff like that. I still try to be that father because I'm a father to my kids. So I try to keep that father bond so that way I can know I'm not going to make this mistake in life or I'm not going to make that mistake in life. I can do better with my life by just understanding who he is as a person and just try to keep that father son bond.

Mike: How did the program help your mental health?

James: They helped me with this program called. It's called CCS. It's a program that they got a team of people that's working with me. They helped me with therapy. I got my own psychiatrist, but they helped me with therapy. They helped me with housing.

James: They helped me with resources for the babies clothes for me. They helped me with diapers, wipes. They also helped me with my education slash work. They helped me with finding a job and school, which I'm currently starting school in August. At MAT for graphic design, so I'm able to have a whole, like, I feels like I got a community.

James: I got a support system more than I did growing up.

Mike: Yeah, I was just going to ask you that. How much support do you get from the other dads and workers?

James: I get a lot of encouragement. A lot of ways to make sacrifices for our kids from them, different relationships with the mothers and stuff. I understand situations and I can learn from them.

James: Some of them is older than me. They way older than me. Some of them like 40, some of them like in their thirties. I'm in my thirties. Some of them younger than us starting off at 18, 17 and stuff like that. So I get a lot of male figures in my life that can be great dads and also learn from us that we already probably got experience, but we also learning from the younger ones and the older ones. And the ones in the middle, all that we learn from all of them, learning different ways to deal with different parents, the mothers, how to deal with the kids, watching grow all types of stuff.

Mike: I was at an event the other day and there was a bunch of little kids, they were all cousins sitting around and you watch them and sometimes you looked at the parents and the parents are like, I don't have a clue what to do here. We've all had that feeling, right?

James: Yeah.

Mike: Do you get together with the other dads? I know you see your caseworker, but do you ever get together with, do you have events? Do you get together with the other dads?

James: Yes, the DAD's Project has a meeting every first Thursday of the month.

James: Except for holidays, unfortunately, July 4th is canceled. But next month, the first Thursday of the month, they have meetings where we could come together. We could bring our kids and we can interact. They bring out people to speak for us. Like they help with, they bring out people that can help with like the hunger task force. They could bring out people that helps with owning a house instead of renting. They also provide food and refreshments there so that our kids can eat as well as us. And we just sit there and talk about life or talk about, I mean, the guest speaker speak and they help us with things that could be reliable in our life.

Mike: Okay. Now I got to ask you, because since you said that, because we're guys, right? And guys can give each other the business, right? And they can be sarcastic. So did you take any heat or kidding or sarcasm from guys for being involved in a program and saying, Hey, I need a little bit of help?

James: I have one of my friends, he didn't want to do it due to the fact that he just, we got our pies stuck in our butts.

James: So he rather do it alone. I'm like, look, they got great benefits. They help with this, that, and the other. If you can check it out, just come to a meeting one month and stuff like that to see where it goes. He didn't want to do it. So I'm like, okay, well. Other than him, I got a neighbor that lives next door that I'm like, man, he's struggling with his son.

James: He got a situation where the mother's not around at all and they can't replace the mother. So he deal with the child. So I'm like, look, maybe I could pitch you, get you to come to one of these meetings. And see what they can do for you. And my caseworker told him to call him after we went to the zoo. Cause we went to the zoo on Father's Day.

Mike: Awesome.

James: Tony Higgins gave us a zoo pass on Father's Day. Met us up there on Father's Day at the zoo. And we went to the zoo all day. I was with all my kids except for one. We have fun, and he was looking for resources to try to start back working. And I'm like, well, take my caseworker number down, call him tomorrow, and go from there.

James: He been busy ever since. I haven't, I barely see him now. (laugh)

Mike: that's awesome. Wait, I want to make sure we get this. Are you telling me your caseworker met you on a Sunday?

James: Yes.

Mike: At the zoo?

James: At the zoo.

Mike: Okay. See, that's, yeah, that's just, that's incredible. That's awesome. That's awesome.

Mike: You know, you said something about pride. I love that. Pride gets in the way, doesn't it?

James: Yes.

Mike: Why do we let it get in the way? Look at how good it can be if you don't.

James: Yeah.

Mike: Is the training, I think David mentioned that the thing that it's zero to three, I can't remember exactly, but after your kids get to a certain age. What happens then for you all in your support system?

James: We still follow through and we, that's why we had a meetings every month so we can talk and see where everybody's standing and see how everything going in everybody's life. That's why we have those meetings every first of the month.

James: So that way we can reconnect and see how things turning out for each other.

Mike: Other people going through similar things?

James: Some people going through things where they having their first child, they don't know how to deal with it. Some people dealing with like me, unfortunately, I'm dealing with two different mothers for two different kids that was born at two months apart.

James: So yeah, everybody dealing with their own issues and all the things, but we come together to try to focus on how can we get out of that situation? How can we make things better? How can we come as a community to help other dads to realize this program is for us.

Mike: Did it change your perception of what being a dad is all about?

James: Yes, it actually helped me become more active with my children, like, I was stressed out, went to the mental hospital for an outpatient program and didn't know what to do. And I'm like, how am I supposed to take care of two kids? How am I supposed to get diapers, two different diapers for both babies?

James: How am I supposed to feed them? How am I supposed to live in one household and not the other and deal with my kids? So basically the DADs Project basically helped me with being patient, having confidence in myself and trying to better my future for my kids. And it kept me focused on, all right, I'm I'm about to get this child and I get this other one, I keep them together and they gonna love me by just being there.

James: And I think that is like basically a person, it's like being a human being, like it's natural instincts to, all right, I gotta take care of these girls, raise them to be queens. But how do I do that when I don't know how?

James: So that's why I reach out for help. I asked my own mother that raised me my whole life. Like, look ma, I need help with this. I need help with that. She can give me all the advice I can get help because I got nothing but girls. So yeah. Look, I know who to come to when my daughter start having that, that love thing and stuff come on and stuff like that every month. So yeah, I'm going to send it right to my mama. And that's what I think.

James: Like my girls always love me by just being there and supporting them, giving them encouragement and showing them that I'm trying my best to just be there and get y'all the things that y'all dreamed and love.

Mike: You know, and what you just said, you, you turned and you faced distress. Some people run away from it.

James: Uh huh.

Mike: And you faced it. And you probably know this, every time you talk about your kids or mention them, you get a big smile on your face.

James: Yeah. I love my babies. I love them.

Mike: That's just so awesome. What are you looking forward to now?

James: I'm looking forward to basically starting school in August.

James: I'm going in school for graphic design. I'm looking forward to getting my house and stuff like that. So that way I can have my own house. So that way I can have my kids with me without issues with the mothers, because I'm having an issue with one mother not trying to give me my child because of the relationship I'm in.

James: And no matter the relationship I'm in, it's due to the fact that she don't like her. And I'm like, look, you can't judge, you can't cancel my visits. I'm court ordered for my visits every weekend to get my daughter. And some weekends I do have my two one year olds together. And I try to keep that bond so that way they can grow up with each other.

James: They like, they ain't seen each other in like two weeks. I've just got my oldest one year old Saturday, even though it was a day late. I got her Saturday. My other daughter seen her sister and they hugged, they gave each other hugs. I'm like, oh my god! I wish I could have got it on picture, but it was just the moment that I was just seeing I'm like do these kids love each other. They really do cuz ain't no way they wanted to hug each other I have one in my arms and she's seen her and I'm like they had their hands I like yeah, and then I put him close and they hugged each other and kissed each other on the cheek.

Mike: Can you imagine those two half sisters when they're two and three and four years old?

James: Yes, they're going to be trouble.

Mike: (laugh) Well, yeah, for you, they're going to love each other though. What would you tell other dads of young children about the importance of dads?

James: I would tell them that basically, being there and trying to show your kids that you are there is more than not being there.

James: It's a better chance that they can live a successful life and be brought up right by just being there and being involved. Like, it would help with these kids as a community, we step up as fathers to be there for our kids instead of letting somebody else raise our kids. It's harder for the mother to raise them by themself.

James: It takes more than just the mother and the father, from my perspective, it takes more than a father and a mother to raise a child. It takes a community to raise a child. So I basically want other dads to know that this is a great program. If you come here, they can help you with anything and everything.

James: They might not be able to help you after day one, but over time they will be able to help you and get you to the position where you, you know that yo, that you know that you're in a good position to be there for your kids instead of doing something that you ain't supposed to do or doing things that can harm your life or put your kids in the position where they can't see their father.

James: I think it's best to basically, step up as a father, step up as a dad to be there.

Mike: That's awesome. And you're paying it forward, James. You know, there's a, you're doing this, you've mentioned just in this conversation, talking to two or three other men about the program. So, you know, that's the way information gets out, right?

James: Yes.

Mike: Amazing. I'm so glad you took the time to do this with us today and I wanted to focus on the program because we, we focus a lot on little subgroups and there are groups that are underserved. And you mentioned it. You mentioned it when you went through the court system. And so we greatly appreciate it.

Mike: And all of your sharing and being a dad several times over.

Mike: For those of you who are listening, there is information about the DAD Project. Now, we're, we go all over the world with this podcast. So just because you're not in Wisconsin or the city of Milwaukee doesn't mean you can't duplicate what we just saw here if your community doesn't have a program like this.

Mike: It's incredibly successful, which is why we put the links in there. Until then, until we talk to you again, we hope that you're able to listen again. We hope that you all stay safe and be involved in your kid's life.