Stop the Threat – Stop the Stigma

[Upbeat Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome everybody. This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction, brought to you by Westwords Consulting. I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: Keep it to yourself is not a great tagline when it comes to your mental health, and since May is Mental Health Awareness Month, it's even less healthy depending on what you do for a living.

Mike: Well, I'm honored to have as our guest today, Adam Meyers, the founder of Stop the Threat - Stop the Stigma. Adam has been a police officer in Wisconsin for 23 years. He's currently a captain. He's also a certified peer specialist in Wisconsin. Welcome Adam.

Adam: Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me and giving me this opportunity to talk about mental health.

Mike: Oh, I'm so glad you're able to, especially this month. Okay. So I've read a lot. That's what I do when I do this and you start one of the articles or blogs that I read with a critical incident that happened to you in 2016. What was that?

Adam: Yeah. On Friday, April 8th, 2016, I was involved in a critical incident.

Adam: I used deadly force on someone who armed themselves with a hatchet inside our Walmart store.

Mike: Yeah. Okay. If you're armed with a hatchet and I assume that you went through all of the protocol that you're supposed to go, put it down, put it down, right?

Adam: I did. Yeah. I gave her multiple verbal commands to stop, to drop the hatchet.

Adam: She kept advancing towards me, and then I had no other option but to shoot.

Mike: Yeah. You, you know, you've been, you were in the military prior to your becoming a police officer, right?

Adam: I was military police, yep.

Mike: Well, okay, and then you're also a, I assume you get training for that.

Adam: Yes. Absolutely. Yeah.

Mike: Was that the first time you had fired your weapon on duty?

Adam: It was, all my years of law enforcement, I always prided myself in never using force against somebody. I was always able to talk people down. In the 23 years of being a cop, I've never pepper sprayed anybody. I've never used my baton on anybody. I have tased people before. But yeah, this was the first time I ever used my duty weapon in the line of duty.

Mike: Man. So did it prepare you though, did all of your training, it prepared you to do your job, right?

Adam: Correct. Right. And at the time I was also a firearms instructor. I was an instructor in other disciplines as well. But you know, as much as police officers train, especially in Wisconsin, I mean, we're trained very well.

Adam: I don't think you really can train somebody to respond after a critical incident. I mean, you can give them ideas, you can give them resources, but everybody's gonna react differently. I mean, somebody going through the same situation, same critical incident as me could be perfectly fine.

Mike: Yeah.

Adam: You know, I was an after mine, so it's So training is important though.

Mike: What'd you experience?

Adam: A lot of depression, anxiety. I started abusing alcohol. I used casual sex as a coping strategy. And I tried marijuana for the first time in my life, but I was, I was depressed. I isolated myself, self harm. There was one time that I struck myself with a 12 inch correction wrench, which I have a example of it right here, hit my knee a few times.

Adam: And the reason for this is because I felt like I was using all my call in sick days, all my, I can't be here, you know, poor Adam type thing. So I felt like I had to lie. I felt like I had to come up with other excuses to get outta work. And when I hit myself with the wrench, I did that just enough to cause redness, abrasions, bruising, and to go into the emergency room, which they checked me out, did x-rays, gave me medicine, gave me crutches.

Adam: And this happened during a week. 4th of July week when I really didn't wanna work. So that got me outta work. But what I'm shameful for, and I feel a lot of guilt is, my chief at the time completely supported me and I went in and I absolutely lied to him. It would've been okay if I would've said, chief, I can't be here.

Adam: I'm struggling. I'm triggered. I just can't work. I'm sorry. He was supportive from the time I pulled the trigger, up until he retired. There was just a part of me that felt like I had to lie and make up excuses of why I didn't wanna be at work.

Mike: Can you walk me through a little bit, if you can remember the steps, because you said you went through depression and anxiety.

Mike: In the immediate aftermath I would, well, any incident like that, I would've been shaking like a leaf. I couldn't have thought. So how long before you felt yourself slipping into depression?

Adam: I started going downhill, slowly at first. But then, then it really started speeding up. And the reason why I knew that is because before my shooting, I had many bottles of wine and I used to collect bottles of wine.

Adam: And after my shooting, I went through those bottles of wine really quick and then I went to liquor right away, vodka and whiskey. 'Cause it got me going. It, it got me to where I wanted to go quicker. So I started abusing alcohol. And I did this for years. I have an example here I thing of vodka, 350 milliliters of vodka.

Adam: I would drink this in 30 minutes or less and sleep the day away. I would also stop at the closest gas station before I would have to go to an event. You know, on my off time, if I was invited somewhere to a party or even to go grocery shopping, I would stop at the local gas station and pick up two or three of these fireball whiskeys and I would drink two or three of 'em right in the car, right in the parking lot of the gas station, throw 'em in the back of my SUV, or I would throw 'em out the window while I was driving to my destination. And I would rationalize that it would take about 30 minutes for the alcohol to kick in.

Adam: And then by then I would be where I was I was heading and things were gonna be okay. That's just wrong. I, I was lucky that I didn't crash. I didn't kill somebody. I didn't hurt myself or be arrested for drunk driving. It was just a very risky behavior. And, you know, another risky behavior I did was casual sex and police officers commonly wear these tactical vests and you can remove the patches.

Adam: And this is just some of my poor coping. It says, drugs, alcohol, and casual sex. And...

Mike: Wait, wait, wait!

Mike: You don't, you don't, you don't wear that on site?

Adam: No, I don't. I don't. No.

Mike: That'd be great. Call me if you ever do.

Adam: Right. But no, I mean, another way that I poorly coped was casual sex. I would meet women online strictly for sex, and sometimes we'd meet and within 30 minutes we'd be having sex.

Adam: And, and to me, sex is wonderful. It's playful, it's exciting, it feels good, and it's something you share with somebody. It's something special. But I did it because I was trying to numb what I was thinking, numb what I was feeling. And I remember one time I was laying in bed with a woman after we just got done having sex.

Adam: And I thought to myself, you gotta knock this off, Adam. I started not liking myself.

Mike: Yeah.

Adam: And all these poor coping strategies, they call 'em strategies, which they weren't, they just weren't working for me anymore. They caused me more anxiety, depression, stress, because, you know, take sex for an example.

Adam: I was worried I was gonna catch an STD or I would get a woman pregnant. But even with that worry, that stress, it wasn't enough for me to stop doing it.

Mike: I read that you said, how could people not know your coworkers? I think an interesting thing happens, right? You had the event and so everything you've just described, you can connect back to the event.

Adam: Right absolutely.

Mike: But, but a month after the event. Your friends or other officers have moved on.

Adam: Yeah.

Mike: So they don't connect the two things. Right?

Adam: Right. And I think, I find it hard to believe that people didn't know I was struggling because this happened in 2016. I didn't finally decide to get the right kind of help.

Adam: Until 2021. So that was five, six years later.

Mike: Wow.

Adam: So I find it hard to believe that people didn't know. I really think they did, but they didn't know what to do or what to say. So they chose not to get involved. And I understand that. I was that kind of officer years ago, I would think, I really like this guy.

Adam: We go on many calls together, but I think I'm gonna keep my distance because how is that gonna look, look on me? How is that gonna be my reputation? I don't want to get in trouble or get tangled up in whatever they're going through. So I just chose to do nothing. So I get it, but I find it hard to believe that nobody knew, because there are many times that I would be online, like my social media and have pity parties for myself when I'm consuming alcohol.

Adam: Like nobody understands. I wish I would've called in sick that day. Even one time I was at a wedding reception and I had many Long Island iced teas and I was so intoxicated. I had to go into the men's restroom, sit down in the stall, and I started texting like this and my pastor, he recently passed away, so I haven't been able to apologize to him.

Adam: I mean, in spirit I have, but my pastor reached out to me and kind of just in support, said something to me and I told him to F off. I couldn't believe it, and I didn't remember that because I was so intoxicated. But the next morning I read that post and I'm like, oh my God! I can't believe that.

Adam: And that was all over social media and you know, I was friends with guys and gals at the police department, so I find it hard to believe nobody knew I was struggling.

Mike: Yeah. Do you think part of that is being a male, man up?

Adam: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I remember when I was in the Army, it seemed like the main theme was suck it up and drive on.

Mike: Right.

Adam: You got a problem, suck it up and drive on. Well, I think that's maybe one of the reasons why I stopped going to therapy when I was struggling too, because I thought to myself, you know what? I can just keep going. I can work this out on my own and eventually everything will fall into place. And you know, I got another patch here and it does, it says I see a therapist.

Mike: Oh, that be great.

Adam: It's okay to see a therapist. I see one now every Monday at 5:00 PM I'm sitting on the couch talking to my therapist and it's great. It's helpful. It works for me. You know, here's another one. I take medication. 20 milligrams of Lexapro every morning I wake up, I take a leak, I pop a pill, and I hit the ground running.

Adam: Yeah, it's helpful. It works for me, so I'm gonna keep doing it.

Mike: Well, you know, it's interesting because as you talk about that on several of your articles where they allow people to comment, there's a whole bunch of people who are really, and I know you know this, you must know this. There are a whole bunch of people who are supportive, but then.

Adam: Yep.

Mike: You also get those people, well, you shouldn't have picked what you do for a living. You shouldn't be in this position. Right.

Adam: Yep. It comes with the territory.

Mike: Right. Right. Well, it's like nobody knows how they're going to react when something happens. Is that also what we do to veterans? Do we dismiss them if they start having mental health issues?

Adam: Right, right. And you know, I was watching another speaker just the other day. It was a meme and, and he was talking to a large audience and he talked about how. When officers get shot in the line of duty or they get injured and they go to the hospital, all the other officers go to the hospital and they pray for 'em, and they're there and they support 'em.

Adam: And then when they get discharged, they're all standing there clapping and, Hey, we're, we're proud of you. You made it out. You're getting better now. But he said, do we do that with, with officers with mental health? No, we don't show up at the hospital. We don't welcome 'em back to the police department or welcome 'em home.

Adam: It's almost like it, they're doing it on, on their own by themselves, unless they have a spouse or a boyfriend girlfriend or something like that. So, I mean, I think that has a lot to do with the stigma that's around mental health.

Mike: Yeah.

Adam: And that needs to, that needs to change.

Mike: Do you think if you would've been honest, they would've responded differently?

Mike: I mean, you were certainly telling them everything they needed to know, but.

Adam: Right, right. I think so. I mean, in the beginning I was there were many times that I would go into work and go into the chief's office and say. Chief, I can't be here. I need to go home. And he was great. He was supportive.

Adam: He said, go home, take as much time as you need. He didn't like roll his eyes and then look at the schedule and say, I'll figure out, I'll figure out. Just go home. I'll figure out who can cover you. And, and I knew he was supportive. His name was Chief Cal Smokowicz. He is retired, but almost immediately he reached out to the media and he said that he supported me.

Adam: I printed out his quote, put it in a frame and put it on my desk. Because when you know your boss or your chief supports you, that means everything. You could be having a crappy day and you look at this and it makes you feel better. And he goes, I think he believed that he had no other choice. I support him.

Adam: And I was like. It meant so much to me, and I knew he was telling the truth and that he was genuine because there were times that he didn't know I was around. I could be down the hall around from his office and I would hear him speaking about my shooting and defending me. So I knew what he was saying was genuine and he wasn't just, you know, talking the talk.

Mike: Yeah. Well, no, what ended up happening in that department then?

Adam: With the chief or with me or?

Mike: With you? With you?

Adam: So what had happened was, is December 28th, 2021, I went to an active shooter training at an elementary school and I had a panic attack. We were watching a PowerPoint presentation about different active shooters across the United States and even overseas.

Adam: I was seated comfortably like I am now, and I started getting really uncomfortable, hot and a knot in my stomach and about a month. About a minute, I reached up to my forehead and it was drenched in water.

Mike: Wow.

Adam: I was having a panic attack and my first thought was, I have to fight this and I have to hide what I'm going through.

Adam: However, there was like 20, 30 other cops there. They all knew me. They all knew I was involved in a shooting. If I would've just said, I'm, I can't be here, I need to go, it would've been okay. They understood and they knew me, but I think because of maybe that male ego, maybe because of the stigma, my first reaction was, I have to fight it and I have to hide it.

Adam: And, and I did. So I went through the training, passed the training, went a couple days off, came back on New Year's Eve. I was in uniform. I was a detective at the time, and I sat down in my squad car and I thought, you know what? I'm done. I quit. I ain't doing this no more. And I don't think I wanted to quit being a cop.

Adam: I think I wanted to quit coping. The way I was coping for many years. 'cause it wasn't working for me anymore.

Mike: Right.

Adam: That was the final straw. So I reached out to my sergeant, he came, sat in my squad and I said, you know what sergeant? I'm done. I quit. I'm not doing this anymore. I need you to come in with me to the chief.

Adam: Now this was a different chief, not the same chief that was with me during my shooting. And he goes, yep, I'll come with you. So we sat down with the chief. The chief and the sergeant were supportive. The chief said, go home, take some time off. Let me know when you're ready to come back. So I think about two weeks passed and I reached out and I said, I'm ready.

Adam: I wanna come back to work. And he said, Adam, the only way you can is if you take a fitness for duty test, a psychological evaluation. And I was all for it because I had been speaking since 2019. Strong mental health advocate. You know, let's go. I'm fine. I can come back to work. So I scheduled that appointment and it was a 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM all day long appointment.

Mike: Ooh!

Adam: When I'm driving there, I'm thinking to myself, I'm gonna lie, I'm gonna lie. I'm gonna beat this test. I'm gonna lie, I'm fine! I can go back to work. So I got there and I was sitting in the waiting room and I thought, Adam, the only way that you're gonna get better is if you're honest. You have to be honest.

Mike: Yes.

Adam: That's the only way this is gonna work. And I was honest. I decided to be honest. And you know, I have my psychological evaluation right here, and it's a nine page evaluation. I was unfit for duty. Got another patch here. I was unfit for duty. I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder, PTSD, acute stress with dissociative features and I couldn't go back to work.

Adam: So the police department psychologist requested said, Hey, it's a good idea. Six months short-term disability. We'll go through therapy. We'll do what we have to do to try to get you healthy and then, you know, you could probably go back to work. No guarantees. But this is the plan. So I requested a 90 day leave of absence at the police department, and it was approved.

Adam: So I started going to therapy two, three times a day. I was doing all kinds of different therapy. It was great. I didn't miss any appointments. While I was on the leave of absence. They put me on a safety plan because during my assessment they discovered some suicidal ideations, which there were. One example of that is you know, I have a complete solid replica of my, of my duty weapon right here.

Adam: No working parts. It's a plastic replica. What I would do easily a dozen times is I put my gun to my head. I would remove the magazine, clear the chamber, take the bullet out, and I would just put it to my tempo and pull the trigger. 'cause I wanted to hear that metallic click. I never did that thinking I wanna die.

Adam: That thought never crossed my mind. But I don't know why I did that. And some people said maybe you were planning it, maybe you were preparing it somehow that you wanted to do that. But I never thought I want to kill myself. Then I think, how many times did I do that when I was so intoxicated that I don't remember?

Adam: I very well could have done that. So after I was put on that safety plan shortly later, within the same month, one of the sergeants came out to my house. I lived outside of the community where I was a police officer and gave me a written document to immediately cease and desist speaking about my mental health, my personal mental health experience when it comes to my shooting. If I didn't stop talking about it, I would be disciplined or terminated. And this was a shock to me because I had been speaking publicly since 2019 to churches, to anyone who wanted to listen to colleges, to police academies, you name it.

Adam: So that scared me, so I stopped. When the 90 day leave of absence expired, the chief called me in. I sat down with him and I liked the guy. I respected him, I admired him. He was retired from another agency. When he came aboard, I'm like, this guy is great. We're really gonna do some great policing here.

Adam: But then he said, we're not extending your leave of absence. You can either resign or you're gonna be terminated. And I thought to myself, I'm not quitting. I'm not resigning. I was involved in a shooting and I'm struggling because of the shooting, so I chose not to resign and I was terminated.

Adam: I was walked outta the police department and jumped in my Jeep, and that was it. I had worked there for 14 years. I had never been disciplined. I had never been suspended. I received medals, awards, citations from state representatives, from senators, you name it. And now I feel like they just washed their hands of me and I'm thinking, what do I do now?

Mike: But you found your way eventually back into law enforcement.

Adam: I did. Absolutely. And by the grace of God and because of my sister named Amy. I went home that day and started reaching out to family members and started thinking, you know, what am I gonna do now? And my sister said, why don't you move down here by family?

Adam: And that's three and a half, four hours away. And I told her, you know what, Amy? I don't have much money. And she said, Adam, all you have to do is get down here and we'll take care of the rest. So I did that and I moved down by her. Moved into her basement, Amy and I joke, Hey, at least it wasn't mom and dad's basement, you know?

Adam: What I didn't know was, you know, at the time I wasn't seeing a therapist, I wasn't on medicine. What I didn't know was my, my sister secretively and which was a good thing, was looking for a therapist behind my back for me. She was on the outside looking in, noticed that I was struggling, noticed I needed help.

Adam: So she did that, and that's the therapist that I see today, and I've been seeing her ever since. Now, after about a year of putting myself first and getting healthy. I thought, you know what? I wanna be a cop again. You know, at first I'm like, nobody's gonna hire me. They're gonna do this background check, and they're gonna think, this guy's a nut.

Adam: We're not hiring him. And that's what I truly believed. I even thought about going back to college. I'm like, I'm done being a cop. But after I started getting healthier. I wanted to be a police officer again. So. I reached out to 50 agencies within a 30 minute drive time from where I was living.

Adam: And I mailed that out and the next day, police departments were calling, they were emailing me. They wanted to schedule interviews virtually, in person. I was like, wow, people want me, they're interested. So then I interviewed and went through the process and within a two week period, three police departments in three separate counties offered me conditional offers of employment.

Adam: So I picked one and that's where I work today. Shortly after being hired, I was promoted to captain and my Chief, Chief Sean McGee is great. We have a lake patrol and we also have a therapy dog. So Chief and I were out on the lake and he goes, you know what, Adam, I know you speak publicly about mental health and your experience.

Adam: I support you. If you wanna keep doing it, go ahead and you can even wear your uniform if you want.

Mike: Wow.

Adam: One of the reasons we're talking right now, Mike, is because I have that kind of support, not only from my chief, but from many other people.

Mike: What does Amy do for a living?

Adam: She's a nurse.

Mike: Oh, okay. All right.

Mike: She had to have some people background to be able to be good at that.

Adam: Yeah. And we have a great relationship. She's a year and a half younger than me. We've always had a great relationship. So when she told me, kind of said, we need to talk. This is what I've been doing. I wasn't upset at all.

Adam: It was kind of a relief because I knew I needed help, but I wasn't gonna take that step and take it, you know, reach out and look for it.

Mike: What worked for you? Because you did a lot of different therapies. What do you think? 'Cause we've had people on talking about all sorts of stuff.

Mike: What worked for you?

Adam: What worked for me is, you know, psychotherapy, talk therapy that was important because, you know, just getting it out was healthy and helpful for me. But also EMDR was helpful for me because I didn't know. But from the time of my shooting until like even now, I would always think I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough because like I said earlier, I always prided myself. I was good at talking people down and not using force. While I actually shot and killed somebody now, and I'm thinking, well, I'm not good enough. If I was, I wouldn't have had to do that. But that's not true.

Adam: I am good enough because I used my training, I used my experience, everything. I was able to stop the threat, stop her. Her name was Melissa. So I was able to do that. And, but for whatever reason, I was thinking that I wasn't good enough. So that EMDR was very helpful.

Mike: We've had people talking about that on here, and it's one of those therapies that certainly people have find, helps them refocus and reframe the traumatic events in their life.

Mike: And then you started Stop the Threat - Stop the Stigma.

Adam: I did. I'm the founder of Stop the Threat - Stop the Stigma. I established that in 2021 in hopes that by sharing my experience, I'll inspire other police officers and those who work in the public safety profession and pretty much anybody, no matter what your job is, even if you're unemployed, to reach out, to speak about your mental health, to get help, and it's been very successful.

Adam: And I've spoken with people in the United States, in Canada, in Poland, in the UK and Germany and Australia. It's great. And I found that we're all connected by mental health. And it doesn't matter. You could live thousands of miles away, but we're all talking about the same thing and it's great.

Adam: So that's something that. I have found that we all have in common, no matter where you live, and it's been helpful. It's been inspiring for me. It's been therapeutic for me and it's been helping people. So that's what it's all about.

Mike: What's the reaction you get when you talk to people, especially, I'm interested in like, people who work in jobs where they get that code of silence, deal with it, walk it off.

Adam: Yeah. There's a lot of guys and gals that come up to me when I speak publicly. They come up to me on break or afterwards. Or they stop me when I'm walking out to my Jeep and they're like. You know what, Adam, keep doing what you're doing. Because they say they support us, but they don't, if they see you as a liability, they'll find a way to get rid of you.

Adam: And I truly believe that I'm an example of that. And you know, I hear different stories. One jailer told me the first week he was employed by a Sheriff's department, he found an inmate hanging. Oh, and this is a really tough guy. You see him and it's like, this guy's invincible. I'm glad he is on our team.

Adam: You know, the, what you would want a police officer to look like. And he said, you know what, Adam? I went home that night and I was crying. I didn't know what to do. I never experienced anything like that and nobody really showed me or told me what to do. So I get a lot of that. I mean, there is a stigma associated in mental health.

Adam: Especially in the law enforcement profession and first responders, it is getting better because like you and I are talking about it right now.

Mike: Yep.

Adam: There's more people talking about it, which is great. I believe it's always gonna be there. Just like some things are always gonna be there. It'll get better and it is.

Adam: But I think it really needs to start in college. I think it needs to continue in recruit schools, police academies. And then continue when you're employed as a police officer or a firefighter or a paramedic. First responders need to know that if they're struggling, they can reach out for help and they're not gonna lose their job.

Adam: They're not gonna lose their livelihood. They have a mortgage. They have a wife and kids and a family, and all kinds of extra toys they buy and they want to pay for, but they're not gonna reach out unless they know absolutely it's okay. Which it is, but okay to the point where they're not gonna lose everything.

Mike: It's really hard. Right. Your thoughts on mental health professionals helping law enforcement when they come to people who are dealing with mental health crises.

Adam: Right. Yeah. I know when I first started therapy shortly after my shooting, I didn't know that there were therapists that specialized with first responders that specialized in trauma.

Adam: I just went to a regular therapist and I thought, Hey, that's all I gotta do is go there and start talking and things are gonna work out. And I remember the first 45 minutes I was talking to my therapist and she seemed great and it felt great to get it all out, and then I left and I'm thinking she has no idea what I'm going through.

Adam: That was such a complete waste of time, and that's why I kind of went a couple weeks, took a few months off, went a couple months, took a whole summer off, and then I just stopped going all together because I thought, you know what? She doesn't get it. I can deal with it myself, and as long as I just keep going, it'll all fall into place and things will be okay.

Adam: But that's not the case. I needed help. I couldn't do it by myself.

Mike: I like one of the things you did earlier during our conversation, you know, if you had asthma, you'd have no problem whatsoever holding up the inhaler, right?

Adam: Oh, right.

Mike: If you had diabetes, you'd have no trouble showing me the stint.

Adam: And here they are, Lexapro, right here at 20 milligrams.

Adam: And you know, when I speak to a lot of people, especially in, in public, I say, you know, I mentioned the sex part 'cause I talk about the casual sex is toward coping. And I'm like. Who here enjoys sex? And a lot of people are shaking their head and they're like, yeah, I do. And I'm like, okay, so if you were having issues with sex, would you pop a pill to help you out and mate?

Adam: And they're all like, yeah. I'm like, then, then why wouldn't you pop one for your mental health? It's okay. You don't have to tell everybody that you're doing it. You don't have to share your personal business with everybody. You ain't gotta go on a podcast like we're doing. You don't have to write articles.

Adam: Nobody has to know. If it helps you, why wouldn't you take that? And you can see the men and even the women all agreeing like, yeah, that kind of makes sense.

Mike: I think it's fear, right? It's fear, fear, fear that keeps people from doing it.

Adam: I think so. And then, you know what, if somebody finds out that Adam takes Lexapro, they're gonna judge me.

Adam: I'm gonna, I'm gonna be ashamed. I'm gonna be, you know, put down and criticized and yeah, it's helpful and it helps me and I'll continue to do those things as long as it continues to be helpful.

Mike: And I think, Adam, thanks to people like yourself, I think we're getting there. We're certainly light years beyond where we were when this incident first happened to you.

Adam: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Mike: You know, you all are aware that I'm gonna stick Stop the Threat - Stop the Stigma links onto podcast here. Adam, thanks so much. Not only for your work, but for your courage and for your willingness to talk about it.

Adam: Thank you, Mike.

Mike: For the rest of you listen anytime you can.

Mike: Until then, stay safe. Stay strong and strong means just deal with it. It's okay.

Adam: Right.