The DAD Project

[Jaunty Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome, everybody. This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction, brought to you by Westwords Consulting and the Kenosha County Substance Abuse Coalition. I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: As we all know, children don't come with a manual. If we're honest with ourselves, many of us felt overwhelmed. Well, there are programs that can help, including the one we're going to talk about today.

Mike: David Comer has a Master's of Science in Mental Health Counseling and is a supervisor for the Direct Assistance to Dads, or DAD Project. The DAD Project is a free, voluntary program that connects a Fatherhood Involvement Specialist from the City of Milwaukee's Health Department with new or expecting fathers.

Mike: It is the only home visiting program just for dads in the state of Wisconsin.

Mike: Welcome, David.

David: Thank you very much. I appreciate this opportunity, Mike.

Mike: For those who aren't familiar with the term, and I find that there's a lot of them, what and who are home visitors?

David: Well, home visitors make up like professionals such as nurses, social workers and other trained professionals that meet families inside their home or in a public place to administer, you know, certain services in this context and more traditional sense.

David: It's provide services for pregnant women and families of children under the age of five. And with the DAD project in itself, we primarily work with fathers. So it's not, you know, work with pregnant women, but we work with fathers and children on the age of three.

Mike: So it's like a wraparound, right?

Mike: You know, what, whatever you need. So you need a social worker, they come in, you need a nurse, they come in.

David: Absolutely. And our program is a multidisciplinary approach. So you have so you have social workers part of the EFM that was our Empowering Families of Milwaukee program, which is our maternal program.

David: Nurses as well. Also, I have access to a nurse coordinator from that program as well. So yeah, definitely. Somewhat of a wraparound opportunity a program of services for those who are involved.

Mike: Well, okay, then why dads? How did this get started? And why did, why dads?

David: I guess my response to that is like, why not?

David: You know, look at first you look at many home visitations services and programs. Their goal is to increase maternal and child health outcomes. And what we know is that the involvement of fathers and dads are essential to this process. And I think for so long in our society in general is that I think we, one, place unrealistic expectations of moms as if they have to be the end all and be all regarding the child and then inadvertently removing fathers from that narrative.

David: But the question again, you said, why dads? I mean, fathers and father figures that contribute to the success of maternal child health outcomes. I mean, like You look at the National Fatherhood Initiative has like his infographics as it relates to why is fatherhood beneficial to moms and dads and also babies.

David: And we look at other predicting factors as it relates to fatherhood involvement, engagement. And also the opposite of that, when you look at absenteeism of fathers, like, you know, there's a lot of predicting factors that we know that the absence of fathers that you have these unwarranted, unwanted outcomes for not only the children, the family, but also when they, you know, they're predictors of success or being unsuccessful as adults.

David: So fathers are extremely essential and important. One of the things that we, what we have a wristband that says fatherhood is forever and dads make a difference. So with that being a foundation of what we do that's why, you know, that's why we want to work with fathers.

Mike: It's great. It's voluntary, right?

Mike: So how do men find out about the program and what do they know about it when they contact you?

David: You know we are like a diamond in the rough or like a gem, because like you said, we are one of the only, probably the only home visitation service that prioritizes fathers as a primary caregiver in the state of Wisconsin.

David: But how people find out about us, we do a lot of outreach events within the community of the city of Milwaukee. As well as we partner with a lot of community based organizations. We go where dads are. We also go where pregnant women are. You kno (chuckle)w?

Mike: They go together. (laugh)

David: Yeah, right. They definitely go together.

David: So, we are doing much more intentional outreach to collaborate with organizations. I always say I don't want to, you know, get tall or grow fat. So, like, I want to make sure people know about us, agencies know about us and what we do. But one of the biggest things is just like any other thing, is word of mouth.

David: We have a number of fathers who are who tell their friends about it, tell their families about it because they've enjoyed their experience. And also they sometimes they look at things like, oh, I can't believe a program like this exists. And so I think it's one of those situations where I think we assume fathers don't want help, but they definitely do when they find us.

Mike: Well, all right. Great point. Talk about what they can expect and what they learn.

David: Yeah, so I have mentioned before, what they expect is one is to be the primary caregiver. We view them as a primary caregiver, an expert of their child, which sometimes is intimidating to say that out loud to fathers because they've never been activated or empowered to believe that.

David: And so that means they are getting to know a lot about their children at an early stage, but also more importantly, they are getting a chance to know about themselves. You know, we do a number of assessments for, you know, the participants for dad and the baby. So, like, we do a lot of self discovery, like, to understand where they are at, where they work, where they came from, where they're currently at, and where they want to go.

David: And so, one of the things that we do, like I said, a number of assessments to help them explore that. In addition to that, fathers can expect to be heavily involved and engaged in the knowledge of the child's health, their development. As they get prepared for, you know, school readiness and also be part of a brotherhood, nonetheless.

David: It's like, you know, you have an opportunity to have a person walk with you throughout your journey towards fatherhood. And that's a very special thing.

Mike: Well, okay. Well, you're just leading me right into it. It takes, I think you'd agree, it takes a strong man, right, to say to ask for guidance. Not a lot of us had great upbringings by our dads, myself included.

Mike: He was absent. So when I became a father, I'm, what are you supposed to base it on if you've never had it? So it takes a strong man.

David: Absolutely. I think a self aware man as well, like to be strong once and also to be aware that I need help. And I think a lot of fathers do that. However, as you mentioned, we are the one and only fatherhood home visitation that geared towards fatherhood services in the state of Wisconsin. So if you were thinking about this, like it's outside the city of Milwaukee, you may ask a question and you may not get an answer. And so, and I think that goes again, plays back to that myth. So I think a lot of men, whether they have a positive upbringing with their child or their father or not, they'll seek help.

David: Like, for example, myself, right? Like my father was, I've never not know my father not to be there and be present. Right. And so, however, my first child I was involved in it. Actually, I wasn't my wife was involved in a program, I made myself known to my presence be known inside the home visits.

David: So she was involved in nurse family partnership and also birth to three. Where I was present at the home visits. And so the practitioners, you know, invited me, but I know the services weren't for me specifically. So then that made me inquire, like, what are services out here for dads to help empower them to know more about their children because it's so important.

Mike: Well, you talked about it. The research couldn't be more clear, right?

David: Yeah.

Mike: The more involved you are, and the better the upbringing, zero to three, the more successful that child is for their entire life.

David: Yeah, not only the child, so yeah, like, you know, it helps, again, early involvement in fathers. It helps us bond with our children.

David: You know, we don't have the opportunity to carry a child with us. Right. And so even in the prenatal stage, we have opportunities to engage you know in that process, you know, talking to the belly, playing tag when the baby's a little older. That allows us to bond and provide a lot more education for us.

David: And so it's one of those unique opportunities that we don't always get a chance to engage in unless the opportunity presents itself.

Mike: Yeah. You know, you sort of mentioned it when you talked about your wife and the people coming in. One of the things I found super offensive when my kids were little was people saying to me, oh, so you're going to babysit your kids tonight.

Mike: Right.

David: (laugh) Yeah, man. Yeah. And that goes back to that point of like As a father, you aren't expected to be nurturing. You're not expected to know those critical things about your child. But, you know, it's crazy to think about because if I'm a parent and parent education is important in our program of service, but, you know, I'm a, I'm a parent and I'm an equal party inside this space.

David: So I still get that to this day. And I think the biggest advocates to push back is that our wives are intimate partners to inform people like, Hey, we're not babysitting, they're taking care of their children.

Mike: And dads are, you know, we do nurture differently than I, I know that's a generalization, but we come at it from a different space.

David: Yeah, you know, there's some interesting research about you know, nurturing fathers and in early stages, it's called, like, tough love, right where it was viewed that fathers are just really harsh, and it's like, well, accountability is not harsh and allowing your kid to fall down and hurt themselves and have them explore is not harsh.

David: That's just a part of parenting education and also overall well being of the child. So yeah, man, it's I think that, like I said, there's a lot of information out there that kind of breaks about those myths about us as nurturing fathers. And how we child rear a little different, but like our program, what we do with the DAD project, we actually, like I said, we have a mirroring program, a maternal program, Empowering Families of Milwaukee was our maternal child health program.

David: We mirror that program, so everything that mom receives, dads receive on a direct assistance for dad's project. So it allows fathers to also tap into that nurturing, but also what we call a responsible fatherhood portion as a parent.

Mike: You also have to be culturally sensitive too, I would think.

David: You know, absolutely. Something you mentioned earlier you said that, you know, not everyone has had a positive experience with fatherhood. And that that plays a lot with our fatherhood involvement specialists adapting to the different type of culture that we experience. And so we do a lot of, again, a lot of the self discovery with the fathers.

David: We do a lot of goal setting. So like one of the assessments that, the fathers participate in is a life skills progression as well as a childhood experience survey. So we utilize these assessments to help tell a story, create a narrative from their cultural upbringing, whether they're born and raised in Milwaukee or, you know, or raised somewhere out the state or out the country and offers the opportunity to help us understand who they are.

David: Where they came from, who they are and where they want to go to, as far as like their parents and education, and also them personally as a father.

Mike: And it's not just a helping and educational program. It also serves, right, it's a support program for the dads.

David: Absolutely. You know like I mentioned, we do a lot of different goals setting with our fathers and our [inaudible].

David: They'd set the goals themselves. And so what it is is that you almost have a accountability. You have a person that's there to walk with you on your journey towards fatherhood as well as your goals. And so it provides an opportunity for the fathers know that you're not alone inside this process. Fatherhood.

David: And I think many fathers, I mean, you might be able to attest to this as well, is that it feels like a lonely journey. Sometimes it's difficult and challenging to talk to other men about this, because you're like, I don't think I'm experiencing the same thing. But what the DAD Project does, it informs dads that you aren't alone throughout this journey of parenting, education, and fatherhood.

David: And we're exploring what that looks like. And one of the things that we so another service that we offer is our groups. So every first Thursday of the month, we have a group called Focus on Fathers. So this is an opportunity for all of our clients as well as other city of Milwaukee residents to come to the group, you know, be led through a topic and discussion where you get the opportunity to see like, Hey, This is where I'm at on my journey of fatherhood and I've noticed I'm not alone.

David: And also this is where even us as practitioners, we are facilitating, but we're not, I would say we're leading. We make ourselves just like the people that we serve. So we are experiencing fatherhood just like they are experiencing fatherhood.

David: It allows an opportunity for everybody to be on a relatable playing field to again, to show that again, you're not alone. To show that I'm not the milestones I'm experiencing aren't unique to me, but also they're unique in my journey. Where we have an opportunity to again, engage in unique discussions around those things.

David: So we can avert, avoid, intervene in certain processes.

Mike: That's key, right? Because it gives you an opportunity to correct also. I mean, (chuckle) think of all the bad advice that we got. I mean, the world is full of bad advice. And for me, that was before social media. So you know, this is an opportunity to give the dads and moms in the mirror program good advice.

David: Absolutely. And then from an evidence based approach...

Mike: Yes, right.

David: That's the biggest key. That's the biggest thing that we are really I like to push is that, you know, I have my own opinions about fatherhood and parenting, right? But we utilize, you know, a curriculum parents as teachers to help guide us. So the curriculum is comprehensive and it, it has a lot of information around it.

David: So anything, any different from a milestone from birth to, you know, about five years old gives you opportunity to engage and have conversations about so that you are making the most informed decision about your parents and education, help education your child and also their overall development.

David: And so it actually allows our fatherhood involvement specialists, our home business overall and the chance again to rely upon something instead of relying upon my lived experiences. Like I said that we receive a lot of advice, a lot of bad or indifferent advice. That can land us in some hot water (chuckle), and we want to prevent that. You know, because going back to being cultural sensitive, there's certain things that I know I believed as a child because my father believed, his father believed, and it's like, well, just because you believe and practiced it doesn't mean that is true or it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be changed.

David: And as you know, I think, you know, the infamous quote is, as you know, better, better, you'll do that.

Mike: That's a really good point. And I see so many adults, David, just to find some of the abuse they got. as kids in order to feel good about the way they were brought up and then passing that same advice on like, well, I didn't hurt us.

Mike: And, you know, and it's like, well, what do you mean it didn't hurt you? You know, you don't talk to anybody about stuff. You don't share your feelings about anything. You isolate, you know, blah, blah, blah. So it must be rewarding to see these men connecting with their children.

David: It definitely is.

David: We have a unique opportunity to be in a space of extreme vulnerability and risk taking, as a father. Every home visit, I, as a supervisor, I shadow home visits and every home visits like a, one of those Hallmark commercials where, (laugh) you know, you see a father lifting their child up talking baby talk, being informed about you know, even informed about breastfeeding, postpartum education.

David: It's such a unique opportunity. It's very rewarding. When we have those opportunities and also again, it's not all peaches and cream because you know, life happens and you have ups and downs, but with those ups and downs, it's great to see the fathers always come back to the table, being ready to address those challenges.

David: No, you know like I said, life happens sometimes we have fathers who have lost their job or you know, or fathers who, you know, were previously reincarcerated, and so they have some challenges with that. And so they always come back to the table, speaking with us, wanting to engage with their child and then planning for the future.

David: So it's something that we don't take for granted. But I always tell people, I wish that you get to see what I see. I promise it will open up the eyes and allow people to, I guess be more gracious with fathers in their approach towards fatherhood.

Mike: Well, one of the things when I was reading about your program, the men graduate, for lack of a better word, when the child turns three, correct?

David: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can say that.

Mike: Well, there's challenges at four, five, and seven, right? So are there resources then that you're like, hey, if you want to continue this stuff is also available for you?

David: Absolutely. So we offer a program for at least two years, right?

David: So, let's say we start a father prenatally, the child's like two, maybe close to three years old. We also graduate fathers based off of their goals and also their understanding of their child. So with that said, we partner then with early head start program. So we do the, you know, essentially prenatal to about three years old.

David: We do have curriculum for fathers for children up to five years old, but again, that's early head start and school readiness. And so we do work with agencies where we do a nice warm handoff. So it's just not like, Hey, you graduate. Thank you for participating. Good luck!

David: We ensure that once you graduate, sign you up for early head start, get your child in school. To continue that journey of parenting education and health education for your child. In addition to that, we still offer for our participants to come back to our group. So our groups are open to everyone, so you can still participate in the groups.

David: And then there are other fatherhood groups and services in the city of Milwaukee that we refer fathers out to as well if they are looking for a different type of environment that can help them out with their children, but also with themselves as well.

Mike: That's great. I didn't realize that you still allow them to come back to groups.

Mike: That's great. I can see them doing that just because it's like, well, these are my buds now, this is my support system.

David: 100%. Yeah. And we've had fathers who again, they come back to group and then they inform other fathers to, you know.

Mike: [inaudible]

David: Yeah, I was like, Hey, stay inside the program. Trust me, it's going to work out or they may bring somebody else to the group or they become our biggest cheerleaders and advocates with inside the community.

David: And I think that's what we liked because it's an organic approach to our services and it keeps it going overall. So, yeah, I mean, I love the fact that we can graduate fathers. They can retain, be retained inside the program in some capacity. And then contribute. My overall vision eventually, man, is to again, like, have like a peer support specialist, you know, in some way, shape or form employ our graduates where they facilitate group, where they are able to inform individuals and community members about not only our program, but the importance of fatherhood and how they've learned within our program how to cater to themselves and their children, their families.

David: Now, we're talking a lot about, you know, fathers and children. But, like, our program is still a family program, so we having conversations about coparenting and coparenting strategies and family strategies is one of the things as well, but that's my vision though.

David: Hopefully I can get to that point in the next couple of years.

Mike: David, I've been involved in programs like that. And that's a wonderful handoff. That is such a rewarding thing to see. And then you have no idea where it takes off from there, but it's just great. It's great.

David: Yeah.

Mike: Our listeners who listen all the time know that there are links to both the DAD project. And you also mentioned on your website, there's also a link to the parents teachers national program. But for those who don't bother to scroll and actually read, give us the information about how to get in contact with your program if you don't mind.

David: Yeah, absolutely. You can go to our website, you know city.milwaukee.gov/DADS. That will take you to our website that has all the information about the DAD project. Also, you can contact me directly if you have any questions about fatherhood, fatherhood services, and any of our programming.

David: I'm at 414-286-6636.

Mike: Do that again.

David: Yep, so 414-286-6636 is my direct line.

Mike: That's great. And David was so responsive to me. So you won't have to wait long for you to get a call back.

David: Absolutely.

Mike: And on our link, it's going to look like, it's just going to say DAD project for those of you who don't see the backslash stuff.

Mike: David, thank you so much for joining us today and for doing this. It's just such a rewarding thing.

Mike: For those of you listening, you know how this goes. We invite you to listen in next time whenever you're able. And until then, stay safe and stay involved with your kids.

David: Absolutely.