Understanding and Grace

[Jaunty Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome everyone. This is Avoiding The Addiction Affliction, a series brought to you by Westwords Consulting. I'm your host, Mike McGowen.

Mike: Uh, There's never an easy way to start a conversation with somebody who has lost someone they love to drugs, but it's an important conversation to have if we're ever gonna get to be able to do anything about the epidemic we're facing.

Mike: My guest today, Melissa Largey, is a case manager with human services. An educator, wife, daughter, mom. [chuckle] We'll start there.

Melissa: Okay.

Mike: Welcome Melissa. How are you?

Melissa: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Mike.

Mike: Yeah, and thanks for talking about such a hard topic. I, you know, it always helps if you just give us a little background.

Mike: So you lost your brother. When?

Melissa: Correct. I lost my brother in 2003. He had a long battle with addiction with opiates, and he struggled on and off, you know, some jail time rehab, you know, just tried for a really long time. But he eventually lost his, his battle with addiction.

Mike: How old was he?

Melissa: He was 30 years old.

Mike: So you're his younger sister?

Melissa: Yes. Yeah.

Mike: And so when he, when he passed away, well, not, I don't wanna give away your age, but were you still in high school?

Melissa: Yeah, I was in, I think I was in my senior year. I believe.

Mike: That had to be devastating.

Melissa: Oh, it was. It was awful because I think. You know, I thought, oh, 30, you know, I knew that was young, but I think when I got to 30 I realized, wow, like that is incredibly young.

Melissa: And that was, I think like a really hard year for me.

Mike: How long had he been in trouble?

Melissa: I wanna say he was probably started getting in trouble when he was about 15. My father is not his biological father, and so when he was about 15, he moved in with his biological father and they lived. You know, near Boston, so in the city, and he had access to way more than we did in the rural town that we lived in.

Melissa: He was hopping on the T, and sort of just traveling all over. And so it started with alcohol and he started getting in some trouble in school once he left and getting in, you know, trouble with you know, drinking and being drunk. And that was really hard because my mom and my dad, who were really close with my brother, didn't really have a lot of control.

Melissa: And once he had a lot of freedom, well there was no going back. He did not wanna come back to live with my, my family where was more smaller town.

Mike: And in between. Did he have relationships, children?

Melissa: He did not. No. He had a few long-term girlfriends but no children.

Mike: You know, everybody copes with this a little bit differently, and that's why I wanted to talk to you a little bit.

Mike: How did you handle that? I mean, how did you cope? How did it affect you?

Melissa: What I found was really hard at the time and still even a little bit. So now my parents are pretty religious. So we come from a very religious family. You know, and it can be said that, you know suicide, even if it's suicide by, you know drugs is a sin.

Melissa: So for a long time my parents told people, you know, and of course it was easier at the time that my brother was in a car accident because there was really no way that they felt like they could open up about my brother's addiction battle if they didn't already know. And it was just a short, easier answer when anyone asks, you know, oh, do you have children?

Melissa: And it was just became this automatic response. And I was sort of perplexed by that. And you know, so I would tell some people that, and then I would tell people I knew better the truth. But what I found for me was I needed to talk about it. And I needed people to know what, you know, that it can happen to anybody.

Melissa: And I found that for me it was more important for people to know the truth about my brother. Because it happens, it's all around us.

Mike: Well, I think that's part of the stigma, isn't it?

Melissa: Yes.

Mike: Put yourself in your folks' place. I mean, why would they, are they still with us?

Melissa: They are. Yes.

Mike: And have they come around or do they still say car accident?

Melissa: You know, I haven't really heard what they've said lately. I think that they are a little bit more forthcoming if somebody asks. It's been a long time since I've been around when anyone's asked my parents. It was mostly, you know, in the close time after that my brother passed. That's when I heard a lot of, oh, you know, he was in an accident.

Melissa: And that is part of the stigma. You know, It's not easy to meet somebody or talk to somebody, you don't know, and say, you know, either I'm a drug addict or my husband or my son. You know, that's not really the thing you say, you know, right up front when you meet people.

Mike: Well, and I'm guessing that there was some shame around that for them.

Melissa: Oh, definitely. Definitely. Yes. That was really hard for them.

Mike: And what, but when you would tell a different story, did you have discussions with them about it? Like did they, were they mad at you that you, you outed them, so to speak?

Melissa: No, and I think what it was was, for me, it was easier for, to talk about.

Melissa: For them they really couldn't. And of course I become emotional. And it's hard to think about. It's a, you know, it's devastating to have lost him, but I think. You know, coming from a parent's perspective, my mother and my father are still, you know, absolutely devastated. Not to mention, you know, the shame, but guilt, you know, they, they have a lot of self blame that they've gotta work through as far as wishing that they had maybe been a little more strict about him leaving and moving out. That they put their foot down, that they persuaded him to stay.

Melissa: You know, and for me, I really just try and talk to them about, you know, you nobody can predict, you know, what is gonna happen to anybody in 5, 10, 20 years. You know, and we all just sort of do the best that we can as parents.

Mike: When you were, when you were in high school and things were starting to slide, I would imagine, did, did you, do you remember people trying to give you all advice?

Melissa: Yes. Yeah. And I remember what was hard about that was I felt like people wanted to know what to say, but they really didn't. So a lot of times they would compare or, you know, maybe. Say, oh, well at least it wasn't this and he, you know, he's better now and you know, things that really didn't feel good or right.

Mike: Right.

Melissa: What I found helpful though was you know, people would just say like, you have to do whatever works for you. Whatever feels best, whatever feels right. There's no right way to grieve. And I found that to be really helpful because in the beginning, that was the only person I had ever lost in my life, that my brother was the first person. I had never experienced grief before.

Mike: And was it just the two of you as siblings?

Melissa: Nope. There was five of us total. So I have one younger baby sister, and then I have three older, two older sisters. And then my brother was the oldest.

Mike: So talk about that a little bit. During that period of time, did you all grieve differently? Did you all tell different stories? Was there like different...

Melissa: Yeah, so it was really hard because we all have like varied memories cuz we were all at different ages. You know, I remember some really significant bad moments when I was younger. You know, like my brother was arrested once at our house on my birthday, you know, and I had a big exam that day and you know, and I remember that exact morning.

Melissa: And one of the things that I found that was really impactful from that day was, I got to school and I had this big, this was when in Massachusetts you have like what's called MCAS, so you have to pass that in order to graduate. And my teacher, you know, saw me in tears and, you know, he was kind of a gruff guy and, you know, he was like, you know what's going on?

Melissa: And wasn't very, you know, gentle. And I was like, it's my birthday. And my brother was arrested this morning and I just was like, I lost it, you know? And he, I think was, had this moment of like, oops, you know, I shouldn't have said anything. And so from that moment I really sort of have felt really deeply that you just do not know what anyone's going through.

Melissa: And so I always try and take that into consideration in my life now. So we all share different experiences of my brother in different memories. He was a jokester, an instigator. He was always hiding on us and popping out. I mean, he would love to annoy my mom. You know, he would say, ma ma ma ma, until she'd, you know, look at him and get frustrated.

Melissa: You know, he would say things in funny voices. And so for us, like my sisters and I, we find that it helps to share memories that some of us might have lost. So I think for my oldest sister, she's pretty quiet and reserved. It can be harder for her to talk about things. My sister, above her, or under her, I'm sorry, my sister Danielle.

Melissa: She's easier to talk to. She doesn't mind as much. Harmony is just, you know, a quiet person. And my little sister, Alison, she was really little. So when Chris passed away, I think she was maybe, oh geez, I don't know, like 10, you know, something, something like that. So she was little, you know? So I think we share memories.

Melissa: We all have little things that like remind us of him that help.

Mike: You know, it's funny, we for those of you listening, we're we, we have these conversations via Zoom, and then we just use of course audio for the podcast. And it's funny because when you started telling those stories, you lit up.

Melissa: Yeah. Yeah.

Mike: So, and that's 20 years ago.

Melissa: Yeah.

Mike: So what a, what a nice way to remember him. How long did that take?

Melissa: It took, I would say I wanna. Probably about the last 10 years, I would say it got easier. You know, I still, you know, it was his, his birthday this last weekend, you know, and so we always, we talk about things. We send, we have a group thread, which is really therapeutic because it's a way for us to all stay connected.

Melissa: And we can just share memories of him. And I would say the last few years, especially when I realized that I needed to do like some deep self-discovery and some. Processing over some of the grief and trauma that you don't always know how to do when you're growing up. You know, you're young. No one really teaches you, these aren't skills you're necessarily taught.

Melissa: I mean, modeling is one thing, you know, from families, but my parents also had, you know, themselves some really traumatic childhoods and so that was harder for them to model for us.

Mike: Well, and I find that a lot of adults don't model necessarily the healthiest stuff. I mean, I come from a generation just above you and every adult in the generation above me modeled by stuffing it.

Melissa: Yes, true.

Mike: Or at least in your family. So you, you saw no emoting whatsoever.

Melissa: Yeah. It was really hard because, you know, my parents who you know, could definitely be, you know, very sad and hurt. It was not, not worked through. Those feelings just lingered and were there, but not really ever processed in an effective, healthy way.

Mike: Well, so how did moving forward, you know, you, you work in human services, you've worked in schools, your mom. How do those experiences help you when you're working with people, because you're really good with people.

Melissa: Oh, thank you. I found that this was really what I needed to do with my life. I've always been the person in my family that everybody talks to, and so I think for me, I always try to have a open perspective of things. And like I said, you never know what someone's going through, and I always try to take that into consideration and always realize that, you know, there's external factors that people have no control over. There's internal things going on with people. And so looking at a person, you know, either from an education standpoint or a human service standpoint. People can only do the best that they can with the skills that they've been taught.

Mike: Mm-hmm.

Melissa: And we have to model and share strategies for what we know as you know, a healthy adult or a healthy individual in somebody's life, to try and guide them and teach them the skills that they need to function the best they can.

Mike: Well, and like with your sisters, you know what? You know what's out there, but you also know what works for you and...

Melissa: Right.

Mike: Works for you. Might not work for somebody else.

Melissa: That's true. That's true.

Mike: I was just gonna ask about your daughters, because your daughters are how old?

Melissa: 13, my oldest and my youngest is 8.

Mike: So his birthday was just, you said last week?

Melissa: It was Sunday.

Mike: Okay.

Melissa: Yeah. Just a couple days ago.

Mike: Do, do your daughters know stories about him?

Melissa: Yes. And you know, I think it's important for me to be honest with my daughters. You know, and of course you always do that at a way that you think is, you know, age appropriate and developmentally appropriate for the person you're sharing with.

Melissa: And so they'll see pictures of my brother and, you know, sometimes they forget who he is and, you know, there's a picture of us on the fridge from long, long ago, you know, and they'll say, oh, you know, who is that? And I'll remind them as they've been growing up, oh, that's my brother Chris. And so they say, oh, you know, I don't, I don't know him.

Melissa: I didn't know I had an uncle Chris.

Mike: Mm-hmm.

Melissa: And I'll say, you know, and then I sort of tell them stories about him and my older daughter has a sense of humor just like him. So I tell her about that. My little one is a little mischievous, which reminds me of him. But I'm honest. You know, I, I told them that my brother had a long battle with drug addiction and that, you know, we talk about.

Melissa: You know, there are medications you can take that you can get from the store that are safe for things that might be hurting or not feeling well. And there's medications you can take from a doctor, but the important thing is that you take them the way that they're prescribed and you only take medications that you're supposed to.

Melissa: And just that anybody can become addicted to, to drugs or alcohol.

Mike: Are you nervous about them starting high school?

Melissa: I am. Yes. And one of the things that I found helps me is my parents were, like I said, they had some traumatic childhoods of their own. So they were very overly strict as parents and you know, raising my sisters and I and my brother.

Melissa: And so for me, I try to be more available to my, you know, my daughter is like, you know, in the check-ins and talking about things and, you know, I sort of allow like a gradual exposure to things and just, I remind them like if there's something you wanna talk about or something you wanna ask about you know, you can do that.

Melissa: And so if they read something in a book. You know, they might say, oh, you know, what's this? And you know, when I tell them because I want them to know that they can come to me and talk about things. And I've also told them something that I found was really important is that they could tell somebody else that's trusting.

Melissa: You know, if they know their, they maybe they don't wanna tell their father I something, maybe they tell their aunt. Because I know there was a time where I really didn't have anyone to talk to as a teenager.

Mike: Including family.

Melissa: Yeah, well, you know, like I would tell my sisters, but I didn't wanna get in trouble, so it wasn't really like, I felt like I knew an adult that I could talk to or ask something about because I was nervous.

Mike: Well, how does that, how does that affect your relationships now when, because it's not as though using is behind closed doors, you know, there's using everywhere.

Melissa: Yes. So I feel like, you know with my personal relationships. I, I'm definitely protective. But I'm open-minded and I realize, you know, there are people, unfortunately all the time who self-medicate.

Melissa: And so I recognize that there are average people, you know, every day that you interact with that might be self-medicating. And they might be presenting one way in front of you to you, you know, what they share with you, what they're upfront with, but you don't know necessarily either behind closed doors or you know, what their, what their real struggle is.

Melissa: And if you do. A lot of times people don't wanna talk about it, but I've found that a lot of times people who know me, even if they don't know me very well open up and talk about it. And that's really an opportunity for me to show them some empathy and understanding in grace, you know, because a lot of people, due to the stigma they treat themselves pretty poorly and they feel pretty bad.

Melissa: You know, I want everyone to realize that, you know, they have worth and they have value and their life is worth fighting for.

Mike: You know, you just mentioned, grace is a word I come back to over and over and over again because you can't, you're not living the other person's life. And, and I think you said it earlier.

Melissa: Absolutely.

Mike: I, I do believe, I think people are oftentimes trying as hard as they can with the skills that they have, and sometimes they make a lot of mistakes along the way.

Melissa: Absolutely.

Mike: You know, you're one of those people, like you're are, you're also driven, you know, you're full-time mom, not a full-time job, and then you just completed a degree going to college.

Mike: So, I mean, is that part of the survival too? Like keep moving forward, just keep chugging away?

Melissa: Yeah, so I'm definitely, I would say like a perfectionist, you know, in all areas of my life. By no means am I perfect anywhere in my life. But I really take a lot of pride in everything I do. So in school, you know, my goal was to be, you know, a top student as best as I could. To be as available to my daughters as possible.

Melissa: In my job I took a lot of pride. I worked really hard in my job. Educator. And I find that I just wanna put the best of me out there. You know, like I really, who I am is important to me, and I wanna live up to, you know, my name and, and the people I serve, and the people that are in my life. So as exhausting and overwhelming as I can be I just go for it.

Melissa: You know? I just push all the way.

Mike: Well, none of you listening would know this, but we've had tried to have this conversation for a couple of months now and it kept getting put off mainly because of your schedule and making the job switch. But I, one of the things I thought was interesting, it goes to what you just said, was your main determination and shifting jobs was time availability to your kids.

Mike: Like that was the number one consideration.

Melissa: Yes. Yeah, that was a really hard transition for me because I started my day with them and ended it with them. So they are really, my life pretty much revolves around them. And I feel like as a mom you know, and of course you, you, you always learn the things you wanna do and the things you don't wanna do from your parents.

Melissa: And so I try and take both of those into consideration. You know, as a, as a mom and I all, you know, I've got plenty to learn and I've made mistakes and I know I'll make more. But I try and make my parenting choices and my considerations around what is best for them.

Mike: That's great. So I'll let you have an an easy out here.

Mike: Maybe. Maybe.

Melissa: Okay.

Mike: How do you celebrate life?

Melissa: So, I find that I really enjoy the magic of, you know, all the things like holidays and, you know, I really get wrapped up in, you know, even the smallest of ones, you know, 4th of July and Halloween. And I, I love to celebrate all those things, but I also love to celebrate anything and, and nothing at the same time.

Melissa: You know, my daughter has a little ice cream party at school on Saturday or on Friday. And so I said, let's have one on Saturday. Cause she said, oh, we don't have ice cream Sunday parties. I'm like, let's have one. So I try and, you know, maybe just make a cake or cupcakes, you know, just for any reason. And anytime my daughters do anything, I try to really celebrate the effort that they make, not necessarily the end goal.

Melissa: Cause I want them, you know, to learn that the effort is part of the process. So I really just celebrate anything that I can you know, each day I'm grateful to just be here and have another crack at it and try to be a better version of myself, mostly to show them.

Mike: I think that's great [laugh]. That's, I, I do that same thing, or I did as a parent, but mine came from a lack of celebration.

Mike: Because of my family growing up. So we overdo everything for the kids forever, and I think they probably think that's the way I grew up, which is exact opposite of the way I grew up.

Melissa: Yeah. Well, for my parents, they, they did make a big deal out of, you know, like holidays and stuff, you know, like if I was home, I probably would still want like an Easter basket as an adult or something, you know, like my mom would still, you know, do things for us for, you know, holidays and eventually I'm like, mom, you don't have to do that.

Melissa: But I remember for years, even as an adult, everyone would say, oh, you know, Missy, where's your birthday list? You always have a birthday list ready for everybody because, you know, people would ask and I'd be like, oh, I dunno what I want. So I'd work on these birthday lists for like a long time. And so now I just try and celebrate you know, everything.

Mike: Oh, this is great.

Melissa: Find the joy, I guess, everywhere.

Mike: Well, and I think it's well worth enjoying too. And that's part of the point of doing this podcast is, when the worst happens. A lot of us, all of us that are left to move forward. And at some point,

Melissa: Yeah.

Mike: Moving forward well, I think is the best gift that we can give to those who are, have already passed.

Melissa: And I think an important part of that that you said was, you know, we deserve to live well. And there are a lot of people who feel blame and shame and guilt. And I think it's really important for them to look at how they might be able to impact somebody else's life by sharing their story and...

Mike: Yes.

Melissa: And, and understanding and being there for someone else who might need them maybe in their significant time of crisis.

Mike: And, and I'm so grateful that you shared yours with us today because every time we do one of these podcasts where somebody shares their story, I get emails, every... single time. I don't always get emails when I have a professor on, but I do get emails when somebody shares their story. And so I greatly appreciate you doing that today.

Mike: And for those of you listening, we hope you've enjoyed it. I'm sure you all have a story of your own. Please join us next time when we'll talk about more stories. Until then, we encourage you to stay safe, talk to people, reach out to people, and live with grace.