Recovery Has Given Me Peace

[Jaunty Guitar Music]

Mike: Welcome, everybody. This is Avoiding the Addiction Affliction brought to you by Westwords Consulting and the Kenosha County Substance Abuse Coalition. I'm Mike McGowan.

Mike: A while ago, I had the opportunity to have a conversation with a trio of guests from the University of North Carolina School of Medicine's Horizons program, which is a substance use disorder treatment program for pregnant and or parenting women and their children, including those whose lives have been touched by abuse and violence.

Mike: One of those guests was an alumni of the program, Chrissy Dunn. Since then, I've had numerous people ask me if I could have Chrissy back to discuss her story. So I reached out. And she was kind enough to say, sure. Welcome Chrissy.

Chrissy: Thanks Mike. Thanks for having me.

Mike: Well, I think it's always a good place to start.

Mike: Why don't we just start with your story a little bit and you're recovering, right?

Chrissy: Yep. I'm in recovery.

Mike: How long?

Chrissy: So I just celebrated five years in January.

Mike: Wow. Congratulations. That's awesome.

Chrissy: I know that's the longest I've ever had.

Mike: Well, so you had other times where you quit and then went back, quit, went back?

Chrissy: Yeah, so for majority of my life, I was trying to stop using and I could never grasp it. I can never stop for more than like six months at a time or three months here. And I thought I would be using for the rest of my life. And then one day it just, kind of clicked in my mind. I was like, I don't want to live like this anymore.

Chrissy: I want to try something different. I'm going to give myself a chance and really try to recover.

Mike: Wow. Well, I don't know if other people are interested in this, but I always am. When did you first start and what did you end up evolving? Like what did you start with alcohol?

Chrissy: So I started with alcohol and marijuana like in high school with friends and it was like real socially. And then quickly when I was 16 years old, I tried I actually tried crack and heroin on the same day when I was 16 and it instantly took over my life.

Chrissy: And so from a very young age, I was dibbling and dabbling and exploring different drugs. And I was like, at first I was like, Oh my goodness, this is it. I found what I was searching for. And then it became a problem really fast.

Mike: Well, why do you say that? Why, what did it do at six? Well, first of all, it's 16.

Mike: That means that you must have been... you had access to crack and heroin at 16.

Chrissy: Yeah. So where I'm from up North in Connecticut, there was a lot of drugs in the area. There was a lot of drugs in our high school and the people I was hanging around, I was making bad choices with the people I was with. They were experimenting and I was trying to fit in.

Chrissy: And thought, Oh, let me try this. If they're doing it, it must be fine. Even though I, my whole life, I knew like the drugs were bad and what it could cause your life to look like. But I never thought that I would have a problem. I wouldn't be able to stop.

Mike: Yeah. Which crack and heroin are two pretty different drugs. (chuckle)

Mike: What did they do to you that you thought this is it?

Chrissy: So instantly after I smoked a crack for the first time, I would, that's what really hooked me. Like I was like, I have a lot of energy. Like it gave me that boost, the endorphin rush. And I just wanted more of it. And instantly, like, that's what the drug does.

Chrissy: You constantly want more. And the heroin, I didn't really like, I threw up, I got sick and I didn't touch that for a while after. So then it was mainly smoking crack.

Mike: Did your family know about it?

Chrissy: So they found out pretty quickly when I was 16. I was actually in a car accident and I went to the hospital. I got pretty messed up with being a passenger in a vehicle.

Chrissy: And when they did my urine, there was drugs in my system, and by me being underage, they had to, by law, tell my family. And I was pretty angry. I was like, this is a breach of confidentiality. You can't tell my family, but because I was a minor, they had to, and then I ended up in my first rehab at 16 and an adolescent program.

Mike: There's some that are pretty successful and you'd, but you never knew when I worked in that, you never ever knew who was going to take to it or not.

Mike: How soon after you finished that program, did you end up using again?

Chrissy: So it was probably a couple months. I wanted to be good for my family.

Chrissy: I didn't want to be at the rehab. I was definitely forced to be there. And I, you know, I didn't really learn much because my mindset was focused on, I just want to get out and hang out back with my friends and party. And, but I did last a couple months because my parents wouldn't let me out the house. (chuckle)

Mike: (chuckle) Yeah. I can see that. And then, when you went back, what was the first thing that you used? Was it alcohol, weed, or did you go right back to crack?

Chrissy: As far as I can remember, it was a while ago. But I think it started with alcohol. See, I am the type of person, I can't do any type of drugs because when I do drink alcohol, it leads me back to other drugs. It triggers me.

Mike: You know, so many people, Chrissy, say well, okay, I'm going to stop the crack, but I'd like to keep smoking weed, or I'm going to stop the opiates, but I can still have wine, right? Yeah, they don't get it, right? That a drug is a drug is a drug.

Chrissy: Right. Yeah. It's my disease that it just, I can't shut things off.

Chrissy: I just can't have one of anything.

Mike: So how many trips to rehab or treatment or counselors did you end up having before you did the UNC Horizons program?

Chrissy: When I started at 16 and then for the next 15 years, I was probably in and out of about five different, about five different rehabs, like inpatient.

Chrissy: I've been to detox a few times, but tried up in Connecticut and then down here in North Carolina.

Mike: Wow. Expensive.

Chrissy: Yes.

Mike: Did you graduate high school?

Chrissy: I did graduate high school. So after going to rehab in high school, I was put on like academic probation where I had to pass all my classes. So I was actually did well from the age of 19 to 21, where I was just drinking and I wasn't smoking crack and I was like really anti drugs, like, Nope, I can't do that.

Chrissy: I didn't want to be around anybody who did it. And I was like, trying to focus on my schoolwork and I went to community college and then once I turned 21, I started drinking a lot. That's when I started to pick the crack back up and then got into opioids.

Mike: So even though they had first had made you throw up and you didn't really like them, you just got back into it.

Mike: Did you use them as a progression where you were getting really energetic and high and staying awake and then you use the opiates to come down and sleep?

Chrissy: Yeah, so well actually for me when I used opiates, it gave me energy. I felt like I can get more accomplished. Maybe that was just the delusion of mine, but I that's how I felt and when I was drinking I got out I was dancing and partying and I had hurt my knee and I went to the doctors and they had given me pain medicine and then they stopped giving it to me and I was like, no, I'm still in pain.

Chrissy: I need, I need this. And then I started buying them off the street. And then that led to a heroin addiction.

Mike: You know, we've had now, I think three podcasts that have talked about the need for pain medication, that you don't just take somebody off, they end up, and now Chrissy, it's not the heroin, it would be fentanyl that people are on.

Chrissy: Right. And I was very fortunate enough that when I stopped using heroin, it had not turned to fentanyl yet.

Mike: Wow. And so you wound your way around and what ended up, how did you end up in the Horizons program? And second, talk about that and what that made that stick and successful as opposed to the other stuff.

Chrissy: Yeah, so the Horizons program was the longest inpatient program that I ever went to. It was nine months. And it was about an hour away from where I was used to using. So I didn't have access to any people that I used to hang out with, but I remember that I was pretty deep in my addiction and smoking crack a lot and using heroin.

Chrissy: And then I finally got off the heroin and I was like, I'll never go back to that because the withdrawal was so bad. And I said, if I get off this, I'll never go back, but I still couldn't stop using the crack. And I found out I was pregnant with my daughter and that still wasn't enough. I felt really guilty, really ashamed that I was using while pregnant.

Chrissy: And of course I didn't want to hurt my baby, but I just didn't have any support or any tools to stop. I thought I could do it on my own. I went to outpatient treatment and would just use on the weekends. And then told myself once I have the baby that it'll be okay and I'll be able to use it again. And so I stopped, I was able to stop long enough to not have CPS involved.

Chrissy: I think I stopped for about a month. So there was no drugs in my system. Thank God. And then during that time, while I was pregnant, I tried to get into Horizons. And there was a waiting list and I'm like, but I'm ready now. Like I'm ready now I'm pregnant. I want to go into Horizons now, but there was a six week waiting list.

Chrissy: So I kind of forgot about that and went on with my life, had my daughter and then relapsed pretty bad after she was about a couple weeks old. And it got to the point where it was like I could not take care of a baby and get high. So I had my mom's support at this time. She was helping me take care of my daughter and she said either you're going to give this baby up for adoption because I'm not going to take care of her.

Chrissy: It's not my responsibility or you're going to get some help. And I had like a moment of clarity and I was like, you know, I don't want to bring my daughter into this life. I don't want to, like, I want to give her a chance. So I called Horizons again that week. And they're like, come on in and on Tuesday.

Chrissy: And I was scared. I'm like, Tuesday, that's pretty close, you know.

Mike: (laugh)

Chrissy: I don't know if I'm ready to come yet. But I went, you know, I said, you know, I'm gonna try it. I'm going to really try this. And it was the best choice I've made ever in my life.

Mike: What happened to the dad?

Chrissy: My daughter's father, he's still in active use. They talk on the phone, but I don't really let my daughter around him because it's not safe.

Chrissy: He does help out a little bit with child support, but they really don't have a relationship.

Mike: So she must be then around four or five now, right?

Chrissy: She's five. Yep. She'll be five and a half soon.

Mike: A hard question, but I'm sure people are wondering because you were using during the pregnancy a little bit, did you see any difficulties with her cognitive or learning and behavioral?

Chrissy: I was very worried about that. Like that was always on my mind when she was a baby, she did have low birth weight when she was born, but after she had trouble gaining weight and she was always smaller, but now she's perfect weight and height and she's thriving in school.

Mike: What was her weight when she was born

Chrissy: Seven pounds?

Mike: Oh, well, that's not low.

Chrissy: Yeah, but I'm saying after she wouldn't gain weight.

Mike: Got it. Got it.

Chrissy: Yeah, so we had to put her on some medicine to help. She had acid reflux and colic.

Mike: Oh gosh

Chrissy: She cried all the time. Like that was another reason why I relapsed because I had this newborn baby I was taking care of by myself and she just would not stop crying.

Mike: So when you went into the Horizons program, did she come with you? How does that work?

Chrissy: Yup, she came with me. Me and her went there together. So the Horizons program is a mom and baby program or women who are pregnant. And I got my own apartment there and my daughter slept in a crib in the same room as me.

Mike: Awesome. That's awesome. You know, that's what people have talked about that, that podcast we did, that's what they were impressed by. And I'm not surprised it worked because it's got all the components that make it work. Nurturing people, taking care of you, a long term program, and you attach the kids as well.

Chrissy: Yeah. Yeah.

Chrissy: A lot of women there bring their children. Some don't, they'll go there first and kind of get stabilized and then their children will come in. So the program works differently for every person, like where they're at.

Mike: I'm always curious. I think some people who go into programs repeat the same patterns again and again afterwards.

Mike: You know, you talked about that early.

Mike: How long did it take for you to trust yourself?

Chrissy: So even when I left the program after nine months, I still did not trust myself fully. I was so nervous because I was protected in Horizons. I was away from old people, places, and things. I was in a new area. I had all these coping skills that I was learning, but I really didn't have the chance to apply them in my life because I was surrounded by staff and other women and just surrounded by recovery.

Chrissy: I think it really took after my first year to really trust that I didn't want to go back.

Chrissy: So after that, I immediately went to an NA meeting, Narcotics Anonymous, and jumped in the program and started attending meetings about five times a week and getting women's phone numbers and calling people and hanging out with people in recovery and just making that my life.

Mike: So what did you do then to take care of yourself and how long afterwards before you felt like, okay, I've, I feel like I can explore some work options or better. Not better, but different dating options.

Chrissy: Yeah. So when I was in the Horizons program, after six months, you're allowed to get a job and start working.

Chrissy: And I just saved all my money because I didn't have any bills or expenses. I think I just had a phone bill at that time because everything there they provide. And then COVID hit and I lost my job and I was like, now what do I do? Like, and I was working at a restaurant, so it was really hard work for not the best of pay, but I still was managing.

Chrissy: And then I decided I need to go back to school or do something because I didn't want to go back and work in the restaurant industry. But relationships were hard because I had a lot of unhealthy characteristics from active use. And I was bringing those into a relationship. Like I did not trust people.

Chrissy: I was just learning how to trust myself, let alone trust another person. And it was just from a lot of trauma from active use and not trusting men and just being hurt by a lot of men or using them to get drugs and stuff. I had to learn how to, what a healthy relationship looked like. And that I had to come from within myself first.

Mike: Boy, that statement is the podcast itself, right? So I'm sure they talked to you in treatment and recovery about what healthy relationships looks like, but it had to seem pretty foreign to you. If you started using at 14, 15, 16, what did a healthy relationship feel like when you first started to date again?

Chrissy: Oh my goodness. That's a hard question.

Mike: Yeah.

Chrissy: Well, so I remember like people trying to like date me and stuff and early recovery. And I had to put up boundaries and say, I'm not ready for a relationship. I don't have like, what do I have to bring to the table? I have nothing. I have, I'm in rehab with a newborn baby with a crack addiction.

Chrissy: Like I don't have anything to offer you. (laugh)

Mike: (laugh) That's not a great match profile is it?

Chrissy: No. (laugh)

Chrissy: And after about a year. I started to love myself and I was like, really thriving with my recovery and thriving in my personal life and with my friends and you know, that started to attract healthy people. For so long I attracted unhealthy people or people who wanted to use me and kind of and abuse me.

Chrissy: But It, I started off slow and really just took time. It just gave it time. I didn't want to rush into anything because all my previous relationships just happened so fast without even like looking at like, what did I really want in a person or how did I really want to be treated? How should I be treated?

Chrissy: But I knew if it felt uncomfortable, then that wasn't right.

Mike: Ooh, that's a great one. So you had to trust your gut.

Chrissy: Yeah, because for so long I accepted behaviors that I would definitely not accept today. Like lying and cheating and not people not valuing my worth. And I had to value my own worth before I could allow somebody else to do that.

Mike: And, and so the lying and cheating. Would be followed by arguments and drama and going back and more and more. So now if somebody lied to you, did you just say, see you later?

Chrissy: See you later! Yep. I'm the type of person like all I want is honesty and to be able to trust somebody. So when I'm around people who I feel are being dishonest, that takes my peace away and that's what recovery has given me is peace.

Chrissy: Peace in my life and serenity and just the ability to not have to worry and obsess over things I can just worry about myself and how I'm feeling today. Once I start that other, my old Chrissy comes back, then I know there's something wrong because I can start the arguments and start the fighting. And then, you know, then I'm in a really unmanageable place in my life and it takes my peace.

Mike: Does the old Chrissy come back?

Chrissy: (laugh) Oh my gosh, she has come back and so that's why I still work with the narcotics anonymous programs. And we talk a lot about like our character defects and just old behaviors and stuff, and they still are there. And then it just, when something triggers them, we have to be able to recognize what that is and then how to stop it and work through it.

Mike: You know, that yeah, that is also a great comment because I think this is where relapse happens, Chrissy. So many people, when that happens, they bury it because they don't want to tell people because they're afraid people will judge them. And then it becomes hidden and it just triggers a whole series of behaviors that can lead towards relapse.

Chrissy: Yeah. Yeah. And those are the old behaviors we have to watch out for our cause for relapse because they're very uncomfortable. Those feelings to me are very uncomfortable and I don't like being that person. I don't like that person that I used to be. So when I do see those characteristics come up, it's scary because it brings me back to the days where I would use over it.

Mike: Yeah, I had this is maybe a couple of years ago, I had a young woman on who was going to a college function with her husband. And as they're walking towards an event, she stopped her husband and said, I'm having a craving and it was such a great thing. And he says, well, do you want to leave? She goes, no, I just need you to know so that you, you know, if I act and it was like, boom, right there, it's total honesty.

Mike: And it's, you know, that's the way you end up not using again.

Chrissy: Yeah, you got to be honest. Yeah. And that's where my sponsor comes in and other women in the program. I'm the type of person like I don't want people to know what's going on inside of me because if I do that means I have to become vulnerable and I have to get honest, but I know from experience that if I don't tell on my disease, I'm going to relapse.

Mike: Well, you know, we've also had guests on who have talked about this for lack of a better word, this mommy wine culture that drinking has become, drinking especially has become so prevalent again after COVID that a lot of women have told me that they feel like they have to keep their sobriety a secret.

Chrissy: Oh, wow. Yeah. So in the beginning, I was definitely ashamed of being in recovery because you know, that's people put labels on people who have addiction and then they start looking at you differently. And it's, it's hard to have to live with that secret, but I'm, I've been blessed with being a peer support specialist and being able to help.

Chrissy: I, as my job, I share my story and recovery and like all the people I work with know I'm in recovery and my family knows I'm in recovery. All my friends know I'm in recovery. So recovery is my life today. And I had to just change my mindset of hiding it, like being ashamed of it to this is who I am. Like, this has been my life for the last 20 years of actively using.

Chrissy: And now. I'm in recovery and this is a gift that I can share with others. So I think of this as my purpose today that I've gone through those things that I've had to go through when I was using to now give back to other people and help them find their journey.

Mike: That's awesome.

Mike: You know, you talked about relationships, I'm sure along the way you had to say goodbye to some relationships, people who knew you were in recovery and then offered you something or weren't supportive or lied to you or how did you end those relationships?

Chrissy: I actually recently just ended a long term relationship, just because I wasn't happy internally.

Chrissy: It's not because that person really did anything, but we just grew apart. And instead of staying in a situation that I was unhappy in, I, it was very, it was very scary to leave because I was comfortable with this person. And this person was a big part of my recovery in my life, but I knew deep down inside that this wasn't the right person for me that I deserve to be.

Chrissy: To feel differently, to feel happy, to feel valued. And it took me a little while to actually get the courage to say like, goodbye, you have to leave, but I did it. And it was the best decision I made in a while because I have that freedom now. I don't have to be tied down to somebody who I know that I'm not supposed to spend the rest of my life with.

Mike: Can you date somebody who is using?

Chrissy: No. No way. No. (chuckle)

Mike: So that's one of the criteria?

Chrissy: Yes. So if somebody's using, I, and even drinking, I am not a person, like, it might be fine, like, for one or two times, but I, like... that's not what I do today, and I don't want to be around it because I don't want to have that temptation one day to say, Oh, I'm having a bad day, and this person's drinking.

Chrissy: Let me have a drink.

Mike: I think I know the answer to this, but so many people don't feel comfortable alone. It seems like you do.

Chrissy: So I'm learning how to be alone. It's a process, definitely a process. Just in the last few months, I have been finding myself and what I like to do when I'm alone. And it's a very peaceful place being alone.

Chrissy: But I do go out and socialize with women and other people in recovery. I go out with my job, people at work, my family. So I'm really not alone. I have that time to reflect on myself and be alone at home with my daughter.

Mike: What do you say to those friends and you have to have them who think you need somebody and have somebody who's just perfect for you?

Chrissy: (laugh) So in our recovery network, we have, so recently two women two friends of mine just got married. And it was like, Oh, I want that, you know? But then I'm just like, you know, I'll find somebody in the right time. I don't need to force it. But I used to be the type of person who always needed somebody around me, whether I even liked them or not.

Mike: And where are you now on your career path?

Chrissy: So as I said before, I'm a peer support specialist. I work at UNC with the addiction medicine program and we actually have a mobile unit, a mobile medical unit who they prescribe medication for opioid use disorder for mental health. And then we have the peer support and social work.

Chrissy: And I'm also in school. I have one semester left to get my bachelor's degree and social work.

Mike: Awesome. Awesome.

Chrissy: Can't believe it. I've been going to school for three years.

Mike: That is great. So you graduate in June or next December?

Chrissy: So they're going to let me graduate early because my grades are good.

Chrissy: They're going to let me graduate in May, but I also have to finish. I have five credits I have to finish and then I'll be done.

Mike: Wow. And what, where do you want to go? Where do you want to work?

Chrissy: So. In this area to do anything in social work, you really have to have a master's degree. So I'm thinking, and it's very terrifying, but I'm thinking I'm going to go and get, go on to get my master's in social work.

Mike: Yeah, it's well, obviously I know a ton of them, right. And that's a nice cohort that you're part of when you do that. Although there's like anything else, there's healthy and unhealthy people and everything, (laugh) but it's, it's great. I know a lot of people who have bachelors of social work who end up working part time, not just as a peer support, but in corrections or something like that.

Mike: There's some really stressful jobs. So how do you, how do you take care of yourself when you're feeling stressed? What do you do to nurture yourself now?

Chrissy: So I love to work out. Every morning I get up and I drink my coffee and then I do a workout and then I do all that before my daughter wakes up and I have that time to myself and kind of meditate and just be alone within myself until my daughter gets up and starts asking me to do everything for her. (laugh)

Chrissy: But, and then also I go to meetings, 12 step program meetings, and we go out on the weekends. We just had a baby shower for one of my friends. We've been having wedding parties and we just have sober parties and we just laugh and have fun. Yeah, but the working out that really helps me stay focused and, you know, it helps with self esteem and body image and all those things that I struggled with before.

Chrissy: And also boosts my endorphins and gives me those happy, happy drugs, not drugs, but the happy feelings. And I stay busy.

Mike: So what do you lift?

Chrissy: I lift.

Mike: Wow. That's great. And your daughter must be about to enter kindergarten or first grade.

Chrissy: Yep. She's going to be in kindergarten in the fall.

Mike: Yeah.

Chrissy: She's in pre K right now and she's just, she has a better vocabulary than I do. (laugh)

Mike: (laugh) Well, look who she's hanging around with, right? So you're about to enter the world of either a soccer mom or dance mom. Or both.

Chrissy: She's in gymnastics.

Mike: Okay, there you go. Right.

Chrissy: She books around. So she's at gymnastics at this new place right around the corner from here, but she practices in the living room and I'm so scared that my TV is going to fall over. (laugh)

Mike: It may, it's, it's great. You know, that's this thing when you have children that nobody tells you you're going to end up doing is standing on the sidelines for years at a time with people watching young people do stuff. It's great. It's great.

Chrissy: She's pretty good at gymnastics, too. She's really, really good at it.

Mike: Yeah, she had you doing cartwheels in the living room, too?

Chrissy: She did, yes. I, she's like, Mom, can you do a cartwheel? Like, I think I can. And I did one for her.

Mike: (chuckle) Good for you. I tried and it still serves as a laughter for the kids. So it's great.

Mike: Chrissy, this has been terrific. I'm so happy that we could catch up with you and see how you're going, because it serves as an inspiration.

Mike: I started laughing. Those people who watch this on YouTube instead of just listening to podcasts sometimes say, why were you laughing during that part? I'm like, well, When you said, yeah, it was like, I was afraid what people would think and people were judging me when you were sober! Which I think is so interesting.

Mike: That's part of why we started this is to do away with the stigma, not just of addiction and mental illness, but of recovery.

Chrissy: Yeah. So even with my work, I deal with a lot of stigma. Just when people hear the word recovery that they're like, Oh, this must be a person, a bad person, or this person has done bad things.

Chrissy: And we're like, no, we are good people. We just had some trouble along the way.

Mike: Yeah. And now it's been five years since any of that. How many of the rest of society can say that.

Chrissy: Right, right. And, you know, for me, it's like, I never look at somebody and judge them because of what happened in their past or even what's going on with them today, because we all are human and we all have, we're not perfect, you know, and this is a disease that's taking so many people's lives and we can't push people away.

Chrissy: We have to help them through what they're going through to, cause people change, you know, people do stop using.

Mike: You know, that's a, oh boy, that's a great point too, that we haven't talked about that. Some of the, oh, that is so, so good. Recovering people are some of the least judgmental people I've ever met.

Mike: They're a treat to hang around with because they're just like they are who they are. And yeah, there's, so there's not the anger, the judgment, the divisiveness that you see in our culture today.

Chrissy: Yeah. You know, like when I talk to other people at work and in my recovery and they share things with me, I'm just like, you know, I've been there too.

Chrissy: I can't judge you because of the things that I've known I've done. So I wouldn't want anybody judging me for that.

Mike: Correct. Great place to leave it. Chrissy, thanks so much for joining us and good luck and congratulations on the graduation and the five years in recovery and the cartwheel. So. (laugh)

Chrissy: (laugh)

Mike: I'll probably contact you down the line. We can have another conversation after you graduate.

Mike: And for those of you listening, since we referenced UNC School of Medicine's Horizons program, there are links attached to this podcast for that program.

Mike: Chrissy, thanks so much for being with us and thanks to the rest of you for listening.

Mike: Join us whenever you're able and please stay safe, live well, and go do a cartwheel.